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2015-11-07 7:45 PM


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Subject: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
one of the expo booths this year was a high end dog food. so IMFL Facebook posted that dogs are more than welcome at the expo. seriously?! the only person who brings a dog to an area packed with people is not the dog owner that has a dog that is well-behaved. Sure enough, two dogs got into a snarling, biting fight right in the midst of all the people - and no surprise, one was a pit. I get your vendors pay thousands of dollars to be at the expo, but lots of people have allergies, dog fears, and just don't like dogs. Why encourage a behavior that is not only rude, but is a serious injury and law suit waiting to happen? A pit bull fighting with another dog in the middle of an expo? what if one of the dogs had got too near a persons legs, or a kid, in the middle of the fight and someone got bit? If the sheer rudeness doesn't tell IM this is a bad behavior to encourage, I would hope their legal advisors would tell them how stupid this is.



2015-11-07 11:07 PM
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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
Originally posted by Dutchcrush

one of the expo booths this year was a high end dog food. so IMFL Facebook posted that dogs are more than welcome at the expo. seriously?! the only person who brings a dog to an area packed with people is not the dog owner that has a dog that is well-behaved. Sure enough, two dogs got into a snarling, biting fight right in the midst of all the people - and no surprise, one was a pit. I get your vendors pay thousands of dollars to be at the expo, but lots of people have allergies, dog fears, and just don't like dogs. Why encourage a behavior that is not only rude, but is a serious injury and law suit waiting to happen? A pit bull fighting with another dog in the middle of an expo? what if one of the dogs had got too near a persons legs, or a kid, in the middle of the fight and someone got bit? If the sheer rudeness doesn't tell IM this is a bad behavior to encourage, I would hope their legal advisors would tell them how stupid this is.




So to summarize....

You are categorizing all pitbulls as aggressive dogs.

Bringing a dog to a public open area is not only rude, but grounds for a lawsuit.

You might possibly be afraid of dogs, have an allergy, etc. and think WTC should cater to your specific needs.

Did someone poop in your cheerios?

Edited by bcagle25 2015-11-07 11:07 PM
2015-11-08 5:36 AM
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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
Pit bulls aren't any more aggressive than other breeds. It's all about their training.

Edited by TriMyBest 2015-11-08 5:46 AM
2015-11-08 5:54 AM
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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
I like dogs ( at least well-trained dogs on leashes) and don't have any problem with the latter being at an event, but it does strike me as kind of funny that a high-end dog food brand would be part of an IM expo. Trying to see the connection here. Running with your dog? Doggy needs special run nutrition as well as human?? Maybe that explains why the "Cliff Bar" I picked up after my first HIM tasted so bad--it was literally tasteless and so tough I couldn't bite off the end. Chalked it up at the time to post-race fatigue and possible dehydration but....Could I actually, in post-race delirium, have picked up a dog treat by mistake?!

Edited by Hot Runner 2015-11-08 6:05 AM
2015-11-08 7:13 AM
in reply to: Dutchcrush

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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS

Originally posted by Dutchcrush one of the expo booths this year was a high end dog food. so IMFL Facebook posted that dogs are more than welcome at the expo. seriously?! the only person who brings a dog to an area packed with people is not the dog owner that has a dog that is well-behaved. Sure enough, two dogs got into a snarling, biting fight right in the midst of all the people - and no surprise, one was a pit. I get your vendors pay thousands of dollars to be at the expo, but lots of people have allergies, dog fears, and just don't like dogs. Why encourage a behavior that is not only rude, but is a serious injury and law suit waiting to happen? A pit bull fighting with another dog in the middle of an expo? what if one of the dogs had got too near a persons legs, or a kid, in the middle of the fight and someone got bit? If the sheer rudeness doesn't tell IM this is a bad behavior to encourage, I would hope their legal advisors would tell them how stupid this is.

If you don't like dogs then don't go to the race.  The other 99% of us will have a fun time without you.

2015-11-08 11:38 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS

Originally posted by Hot Runner I like dogs ( at least well-trained dogs on leashes) and don't have any problem with the latter being at an event, but it does strike me as kind of funny that a high-end dog food brand would be part of an IM expo. Trying to see the connection here. Running with your dog? Doggy needs special run nutrition as well as human?? Maybe that explains why the "Cliff Bar" I picked up after my first HIM tasted so bad--it was literally tasteless and so tough I couldn't bite off the end. Chalked it up at the time to post-race fatigue and possible dehydration but....Could I actually, in post-race delirium, have picked up a dog treat by mistake?!

LOL

But just like when you go to a local race and they've got mortgage brokers or similar with booths.   It's more a sign that perhaps there is not enough interest in paying the $$ to sponsor a booth at an IM expo

Personally, I've found most every race expo I've been to lame.  Get in, check in, get out!



2015-11-08 12:03 PM
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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS

Originally posted by Dutchcrush one of the expo booths this year was a high end dog food. so IMFL Facebook posted that dogs are more than welcome at the expo. seriously?! the only person who brings a dog to an area packed with people is not the dog owner that has a dog that is well-behaved. Sure enough, two dogs got into a snarling, biting fight right in the midst of all the people - and no surprise, one was a pit. I get your vendors pay thousands of dollars to be at the expo, but lots of people have allergies, dog fears, and just don't like dogs. Why encourage a behavior that is not only rude, but is a serious injury and law suit waiting to happen? A pit bull fighting with another dog in the middle of an expo? what if one of the dogs had got too near a persons legs, or a kid, in the middle of the fight and someone got bit? If the sheer rudeness doesn't tell IM this is a bad behavior to encourage, I would hope their legal advisors would tell them how stupid this is.

I bring my dog everywhere that dogs are allowed.  If you don't like dogs being around, then stay away from those places.  I won't miss you.

2015-11-08 12:14 PM
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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
Pitties are great dogs! Their owners can be assholes.
2015-11-08 12:39 PM
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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS

Originally posted by AdventureBear Pitties are great dogs! Their owners can be .

this ^^^  I volunteer with a program that raises exlosive detection canines for LEO. Just like kids, dogs have to be taught how to behave in public and around others. I've had to exit more than a few public places because because my 80lb lab "puppy" in training wasn't behaving properly. Dogs have to be trained and that's the responsibility of the owner/handler.  If a dog is well-trained they should be fine at an expo. Doesn't mean idiots won't bring one that shouldn't be there, but I can't muster any outrage over it.  And the reason the high end dog chow company exhibits at IM expos is because the attendees include the people that will pay premium $$$ for dog food. Our service dogs eat basic dry food. No treats. They work for praise. 

2015-11-08 1:10 PM
in reply to: kcarroll

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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
It's simply a coincidence.....all the attacks that involve pit bulls. Right?

I love my dog and take her most places we go. She's a docile Vizsla. I don't take her where I think I might confront problem dogs (whether the problem lies with the owner or the dog, it doesn't make any difference to the person or dog on the receiving end of the attack).
2015-11-08 1:39 PM
in reply to: Dutchcrush

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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
Normally as a dog owner I'd say yes people have to be more thoughtful where they take their dogs. But in this case they posted its dog friendly so I don't see the arguement here ?


2015-11-08 2:20 PM
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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
I like dogs, a lot.
Every time I'm at a race and somebody doesn't have good control of their animal, I think... this isn't really the place. Too many fast moving, ready to chase things at races. It's not everyone and not every animal, but there is almost always one.

Animals are like kids, you think yours can do no wrong. Sometimes it's true... sometimes it isn't.
2015-11-08 2:51 PM
in reply to: Leegoocrap

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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
I love dog threads! They always turn out to be very entertaining.
2015-11-08 5:30 PM
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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
I dont mind dogs as long as they arent jumping up on me or I am in a small space with them. I do have allergy induced asthma so they can pose a real problem to me but I just try to avoid those situations. At a race expo if it was overrun with out of control dogs everywhere I would simply leave but if there were a few and they were well behaved then I couldnt care less.
2015-11-08 10:36 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Pit bulls aren't any more aggressive than other breeds. It's all about their training.


I work in the medical field and last year I treated 12 patients with bog bites, 11 were Pits, and almost all the people mauled (yes multiple bites) knew the dog. This includes children who were frequently around the dog. The other was a German Shepard. I love dogs, and have seen a number of well behaved Pits. Bottom line is I wouldn't let my children around one.
2015-11-09 7:42 AM
in reply to: nrpoulin

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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
Originally posted by nrpoulin

Originally posted by TriMyBest

Pit bulls aren't any more aggressive than other breeds. It's all about their training.


I work in the medical field and last year I treated 12 patients with bog bites, 11 were Pits, and almost all the people mauled (yes multiple bites) knew the dog. This includes children who were frequently around the dog. The other was a German Shepard. I love dogs, and have seen a number of well behaved Pits. Bottom line is I wouldn't let my children around one.

Please forgive me but how does that change the position that it's not the dog but the irresponsible owner? I am a dog lover and the people I associate with are as well. Actually let me expand that, RESPONSIBLE dog lovers. There is not a single one of their dogs that I would not trust with even the most obnoxious person, child or adult. Of course I am wary of strange dogs, but not because of the dog, because I don't know the owner.

A few months ago my wife and I spent several days volunteering at Best Friends in UT. There was a dog there that was rescued from a trash dumpster. Both ears had been torn off and his skull had been crushed. He was the loser in a dog fight. The scar that ran across his skull will forever be a reminder of what he went through. Two things to note here.

1. He was finishing up his service dog training. Sweetest thing you would ever want to meet.
2. He was a BIG pit bull.

I get the bias against pits. I understand people being frustrated at dog that don't behave well in public. But I can say the same thing about cars that race in and out of traffic, run red lights and are intentionally aggressive around runners and cyclists. I'm pretty sure it isn't the car but the a$$hole driving.

As was said previously, if a venue allows dogs expect me to be there with Callie. And if your two year old happens to wander up to her without you noticing, don't worry. Callie will just sit and enjoy the attention.


2015-11-09 10:02 AM
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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
I understand that you're not a dog person, not everyone is. I worked with dogs professionally for over a dozen years, so I can't relate specifically, but I can say that I'm not a huge fan of children. I tend to avoid things marketed as "family fun" because I don't want to be around a bunch of kids. That would be the point of marketing, no? Tell me what kind of event it is so I can decide whether I want to take part.

I can see your side of being upset with something like IMFL, where you sign up far in advance, and are told after you're committed a huge amount of time and money and headspace, that suddenly it isn't your kind of event. That would make me pretty mad, too. Sorry that happened to you.

But then you went and blamed pitties on the internet, and now no one can hear your true message!

Look, I worked professionally with dogs for over a dozen years. I've been bit so many times. Doxies are the worst and have left me with the most scars. Spaniels have cost me the most money, from a lost business and time off from work perspective. But the scariest scenario was with a pitbull. They have really big mouths, and if your arm gets in there, well, its not going to end well. But I don't blame the breed.

All dogs bite. All of them. If you aren't a dog person, find another place to be. I'm just sorry IMFL didn't give you that opportunity, but announcing the dog friendly policy after you had already registered.

Edited by Atlantia 2015-11-09 10:03 AM
2015-11-09 10:37 AM
in reply to: Stuartap

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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS

Originally posted by Stuartap
Originally posted by nrpoulin
Originally posted by TriMyBest Pit bulls aren't any more aggressive than other breeds. It's all about their training.
I work in the medical field and last year I treated 12 patients with bog bites, 11 were Pits, and almost all the people mauled (yes multiple bites) knew the dog. This includes children who were frequently around the dog. The other was a German Shepard. I love dogs, and have seen a number of well behaved Pits. Bottom line is I wouldn't let my children around one.
Please forgive me but how does that change the position that it's not the dog but the irresponsible owner? I am a dog lover and the people I associate with are as well. Actually let me expand that, RESPONSIBLE dog lovers. There is not a single one of their dogs that I would not trust with even the most obnoxious person, child or adult. Of course I am wary of strange dogs, but not because of the dog, because I don't know the owner. A few months ago my wife and I spent several days volunteering at Best Friends in UT. There was a dog there that was rescued from a trash dumpster. Both ears had been torn off and his skull had been crushed. He was the loser in a dog fight. The scar that ran across his skull will forever be a reminder of what he went through. Two things to note here. 1. He was finishing up his service dog training. Sweetest thing you would ever want to meet. 2. He was a BIG pit bull. I get the bias against pits. I understand people being frustrated at dog that don't behave well in public. But I can say the same thing about cars that race in and out of traffic, run red lights and are intentionally aggressive around runners and cyclists. I'm pretty sure it isn't the car but the a$$hole driving. As was said previously, if a venue allows dogs expect me to be there with Callie. And if your two year old happens to wander up to her without you noticing, don't worry. Callie will just sit and enjoy the attention.

So if a kid is around a pit bull for years then one day gets mauled the owner just became irresponsible?

I think it's fantastic that people love pit bulls and rottweilers however the data suggests they're among the most likely to turn on people.  Even their loving owners who have done nothing abusive to them ever.... I happen to have a friend who bought two rottweiler pups from a "respectable" breeder.  He and his wife raised these pups lovingly, never treated them poorly, trained them to heel, basic commands etc.  One day when the dogs were three or four his wife was feeding them and dropped something on the floor near one of their dishes and when she moved to grab it one of the dogs tore into her face, opened her up bad requiring several reconstructive surgeries etc.  The only thing they were told was it was likely something instinctual kicked in with the dog thinking their food was about to be taken etc...   How's this the fault of the owner?  What "training" would have prevented this?  IF there's a possibility of certain breeds to revert to instincts that cause them to attack AND they're dangerous in size and strength to begin with, how are people wrong to be very leery being around them?

It's one thing to have an attachment to an animal, it's another to ignore the statistics and tell people they're wrong for fearing breeds bred for their fighting prowess... 

 

2015-11-09 10:50 AM
in reply to: TriMike

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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS

yeah, all those bulldogs too right?

 

either way, good job IMFL for not being aholes and banning dogs from their expo

2015-11-09 10:57 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS

Bulldogs aren't in the top 10... Either are labs, retrievers, terriers etc...

 

2015-11-09 10:59 AM
in reply to: TriMike

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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS

Originally posted by TriMike... his wife was feeding them and dropped something on the floor near one of their dishes and when she moved to grab it one of the dogs... The only thing they were told was it was likely something instinctual kicked in with the dog thinking their food was about to be taken etc...   How's this the fault of the owner?

This is a failure of the owner to understand basic canine behavior and train themselves (yes, the OWNER needs to be trained), and their training of the dog.

First, the dog must understand the hierarchy in your pack, and it must not waver. Second, if for any reason you DO need to get anything near their food, including the food (which they need to be trained is not a threat), you back them off by command first, then get it.

I'm sorry for her pain and suffering, but it was not the dog's fault.



2015-11-09 11:23 AM
in reply to: briderdt

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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS

Originally posted by briderdt

Originally posted by TriMike... his wife was feeding them and dropped something on the floor near one of their dishes and when she moved to grab it one of the dogs... The only thing they were told was it was likely something instinctual kicked in with the dog thinking their food was about to be taken etc...   How's this the fault of the owner?

This is a failure of the owner to understand basic canine behavior and train themselves (yes, the OWNER needs to be trained), and their training of the dog.

First, the dog must understand the hierarchy in your pack, and it must not waver. Second, if for any reason you DO need to get anything near their food, including the food (which they need to be trained is not a threat), you back them off by command first, then get it.

I'm sorry for her pain and suffering, but it was not the dog's fault.

I can't comment on all the steps they took with these dogs regarding training however one thing I remember (this happened 10+ years ago) is they spit in the dogs' food in order for them to understand the food they were provided was from the alpha dog.  I know they spent a lot of time trying to establish the pack order and I'm recollecting his wife struggled to gain the dogs' deference at times.  

I can't comment on the exactness of spitting in the food step(s), however I know they spent a lot of time and money learning how to train the dogs from the very beginning and took it quite seriously.  So it sounds as though a step was missed or forgotten however that's my point, some breeds are just too dangerous because if you miss something, forget something etc., or worse, someone who doesn't know all the "rules" has a mis-step, they often pay a steep price.  

I want to clarify that I love dogs and think they should be permitted in public places etc., however I think dangerous breeds should be required to be in a muzzle in the interest of public safety so the lessons learned aren't at the expense of the innocent.  

 

2015-11-09 11:25 AM
in reply to: TriMike

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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
Originally posted by TriMike

Originally posted by Stuartap
Originally posted by nrpoulin
Originally posted by TriMyBest Pit bulls aren't any more aggressive than other breeds. It's all about their training.
I work in the medical field and last year I treated 12 patients with bog bites, 11 were Pits, and almost all the people mauled (yes multiple bites) knew the dog. This includes children who were frequently around the dog. The other was a German Shepard. I love dogs, and have seen a number of well behaved Pits. Bottom line is I wouldn't let my children around one.
Please forgive me but how does that change the position that it's not the dog but the irresponsible owner? I am a dog lover and the people I associate with are as well. Actually let me expand that, RESPONSIBLE dog lovers. There is not a single one of their dogs that I would not trust with even the most obnoxious person, child or adult. Of course I am wary of strange dogs, but not because of the dog, because I don't know the owner. A few months ago my wife and I spent several days volunteering at Best Friends in UT. There was a dog there that was rescued from a trash dumpster. Both ears had been torn off and his skull had been crushed. He was the loser in a dog fight. The scar that ran across his skull will forever be a reminder of what he went through. Two things to note here. 1. He was finishing up his service dog training. Sweetest thing you would ever want to meet. 2. He was a BIG pit bull. I get the bias against pits. I understand people being frustrated at dog that don't behave well in public. But I can say the same thing about cars that race in and out of traffic, run red lights and are intentionally aggressive around runners and cyclists. I'm pretty sure it isn't the car but the a$$hole driving. As was said previously, if a venue allows dogs expect me to be there with Callie. And if your two year old happens to wander up to her without you noticing, don't worry. Callie will just sit and enjoy the attention.

So if a kid is around a pit bull for years then one day gets mauled the owner just became irresponsible?

I think it's fantastic that people love pit bulls and rottweilers however the data suggests they're among the most likely to turn on people.  Even their loving owners who have done nothing abusive to them ever.... I happen to have a friend who bought two rottweiler pups from a "respectable" breeder.  He and his wife raised these pups lovingly, never treated them poorly, trained them to heel, basic commands etc.  One day when the dogs were three or four his wife was feeding them and dropped something on the floor near one of their dishes and when she moved to grab it one of the dogs tore into her face, opened her up bad requiring several reconstructive surgeries etc.  The only thing they were told was it was likely something instinctual kicked in with the dog thinking their food was about to be taken etc...   How's this the fault of the owner?  What "training" would have prevented this?  IF there's a possibility of certain breeds to revert to instincts that cause them to attack AND they're dangerous in size and strength to begin with, how are people wrong to be very leery being around them?

It's one thing to have an attachment to an animal, it's another to ignore the statistics and tell people they're wrong for fearing breeds bred for their fighting prowess... 

 



Since I have never been in one of those homes where a dog attack has occurred nor know of any personally, I am afraid I can't speak authoritatively on the specifics you cite. But as long as we are talking statistics, let's do that.

On average about 1000 Americans a day seek medical attention for a dog bit. The severity of that varies widely. In a ten year period from 2005-2014 there were 326 fatalities from dog attacks. So that is roughly 33/year No numbers are readily available that I could find on how many of those were from dogs trained to attack. My guess is more than a few but let's forgo that for a moment.

On average 37,000 Americans a year die in an auto accident. That's 101 per DAY. Another 2.35 million are injured or disabled every year from car accidents. As I stated before, I am sure not once was that the fault of the car, but the driver.

So if you want to use statistics as an argument for safety, then I assume you don't drive and don't let your friends drive etc.

BTW - almost 650 Americans/day over the age of 15 go to an emergency room for an accident that happened in the bathroom. Do with that what you will.

I am really not trying to be confrontational, just trying to put this in to perspective. Do family pets bite, absolutely. Do I firmly believe that that the majority of severe dog attacks are from dogs encourage if not trained to fight, absolutely. I can't prove it, but I know a lot of pit bull owners and their dogs, and I am far more afraid of getting hit by a car while riding than getting bit by a dog.
2015-11-09 11:34 AM
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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
nm... nobody is going to change anyone's mind in this thread.

Edited by Leegoocrap 2015-11-09 11:34 AM
2015-11-09 11:39 AM
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Subject: RE: IMFL want to make me scream - NO DOGS
Originally posted by Leegoocrap

nm... nobody is going to change anyone's mind in this thread.

Now this is something we can all agree on!
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