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Winning Ugly
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 2009-07-27 1:36 PM |
Pro  3705     Vestavia Hills |  Subject: Winning UglyI knew that it would not take long for the sparks to fly, especially when new team lines will be forming soon, but *sheesh* could Contador show less class? |
| 2009-07-27 2:07 PM in reply to: #2310553 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly brian - 2009-07-27 2:36 PM I knew that it would not take long for the sparks to fly, especially when new team lines will be forming soon, but *sheesh* could Contador show less class? I agree. He's showing a significant lack of tact. I think AC's biggest challenge is going to be to find superdomestiques that want to ride with him. He'll get a bunch of guys because A) he's good and B) there are people in the peloton who don't like Armstrong. But he won't get the Kloddens, Levis, etc because he showed that he's more concerned with his own ambitions than with his team. That stupid pistol shooting hand gesture makes me want to slap that guy. Didn't he see Happy Gilmore? Shooter McGavin? I think it'll make for juicy commentary all year leading-up to the TdF next year. Will Lance play possum through the Giro? |
| 2009-07-27 2:12 PM in reply to: #2310642 |
| Subject: RE: Winning Ugly GomesBolt - 2009-07-27 12:07 PM brian - 2009-07-27 2:36 PM I knew that it would not take long for the sparks to fly, especially when new team lines will be forming soon, but *sheesh* could Contador show less class? I agree. He's showing a significant lack of tact. I think AC's biggest challenge is going to be to find superdomestiques that want to ride with him. He'll get a bunch of guys because A) he's good and B) there are people in the peloton who don't like Armstrong. But he won't get the Kloddens, Levis, etc because he showed that he's more concerned with his own ambitions than with his team. That stupid pistol shooting hand gesture makes me want to slap that guy. Didn't he see Happy Gilmore? Shooter McGavin? I think it'll make for juicy commentary all year leading-up to the TdF next year. Will Lance play possum through the Giro? What about his silly AC hat with the hand "pistol" on the front he wore on the podium?? C Hummer screwed up, saying it was a "two finger" salute for two tours, but it was the stupid pistol..... |
| 2009-07-27 3:08 PM in reply to: #2310666 |
Champion 11989  Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly ChrisM - 2009-07-27 3:12 PM GomesBolt - 2009-07-27 12:07 PM brian - 2009-07-27 2:36 PM I knew that it would not take long for the sparks to fly, especially when new team lines will be forming soon, but *sheesh* could Contador show less class? I agree. He's showing a significant lack of tact. I think AC's biggest challenge is going to be to find superdomestiques that want to ride with him. He'll get a bunch of guys because A) he's good and B) there are people in the peloton who don't like Armstrong. But he won't get the Kloddens, Levis, etc because he showed that he's more concerned with his own ambitions than with his team. That stupid pistol shooting hand gesture makes me want to slap that guy. Didn't he see Happy Gilmore? Shooter McGavin? I think it'll make for juicy commentary all year leading-up to the TdF next year. Will Lance play possum through the Giro? What about his silly AC hat with the hand "pistol" on the front he wore on the podium?? C Hummer screwed up, saying it was a "two finger" salute for two tours, but it was the stupid pistol..... ...I gave the TV a one finger salute several times when AC was on. Edited by mrbbrad 2009-07-27 3:09 PM |
| 2009-07-27 3:33 PM in reply to: #2310553 |
Master 1790 Tyler, TX | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly I was just reading the Spanish press regarding the Tour, Armstrong/Contador feud, etc. Quite a different storyline which I suppose isn't surprising! The gist of the articles is that Contador was the stongest rider but also the victim. Lots of focus on being isolated by a team following Armstrong's lead in trying to make him the odd-man-out. Apparently there wasn't much talking to him at team meals, and public/twitter comments by LA, LL, JB really stung. Once AC had to bum a ride from his brother to get to the race start since the team car he thought would be taking him was comandeered to pick up LA's family at the airport, but nobody bothered to tell AC. Lots of people over there think AC was treated very unfairly by his team and was not supported during the race nor in the off hours. Probably some truth in all of this also. Some good stuff here if you read Spanish http://www.elpais.com/deportes/ Brian |
| 2009-07-27 3:51 PM in reply to: #2310553 |
Elite 3491 In The Peleton | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly Very interesting dynamic. Contador will be back next year with a strong team. The whole goal of the team is to win the race. Astana managed to do that AND put Armstrong on the podium as well. Huge success all around Contador is capable of repeating. Strong riders will certainly want to support him. It just won't be the same crew as this year. I agree, his comments after the race are in bad taste. Things could have been done differently on both sides during the tour. AC made a mistake with his acceleration that detonated Kloden and played into Andy and Frank's hand. Bottom line is Kloden wasn't strong enough to hang. Credit Lance for being the good teammate and not dragging Wiggins up the road on that stage. It's low class of AC to not give credit for that as it was a team play rather than a selfish one. The salute, what I crudely refer to as the "finger bang" is horrible. Did anyone else notice it was the graphic on his disk at the last time trial? Wow. So. Lame! |
| 2009-07-27 4:51 PM in reply to: #2310553 |
Master 1404 Eagle Mountain, Utah | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly I guess I see things differently than what is posted here. It looked to me that Armstrong was out for himself and not the other way around. That was established from day one with his comments. I actually think that Armstrong was the third best rider on the team behind Contador and Kloden. As far as the "pistol shoot", he has been doing that for awhile and in other races. Kind of like Cavendish doing his "telephone" thing at the end of sprints, how many got after that? If Contador comes in next year in the shape he was this year, no way Armstong beats him. I do not care what Armstong does in the off season. Age catches up with everyone and he is not the same rider he once was. Also I wonder why Johan was not at the awards, I guess that shows class? I thought the way Armstrong acted at the podium did not show much class either. But these are just my opinions. I like Armstrong but come on. |
| 2009-07-27 5:23 PM in reply to: #2310553 |
Master 1472 | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly The war of words is on.... anyone see LA's latest remark on his Twitter?
"Hey pistolero, there is no "I" in team. What did I say in March? Lots to learn".
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| 2009-07-27 5:44 PM in reply to: #2311158 |
| Subject: RE: Winning Ugly idahodan - 2009-07-27 3:23 PM The war of words is on.... anyone see LA's latest remark on his Twitter?
"Hey pistolero, there is no "I" in team. What did I say in March? Lots to learn".
LOL, awesome with those two big egos the mountains are going to be epic next year. |
| 2009-07-27 6:44 PM in reply to: #2310553 |
Elite 2793 Denver | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly GO SCHLECK!!! |
| 2009-07-27 8:40 PM in reply to: #2311158 |
Pro 3705 Vestavia Hills | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly Conspiracy theory here is that Armstrong knows that Contador's weakness is pride ... and is already playing with him. Contador the odd man out? Puh-leease ... the only way that happens is if Contador sets himself up to be like that. He had months to train with the team and yet made no friends on the squad? That, in and of itself, is telling. You can judge the depth of someone's character when they are at the apex of when they are "up" and at the lowest point when they are "down". Contador is shallow. idahodan - 2009-07-27 6:23 PM The war of words is on.... anyone see LA's latest remark on his Twitter?
"Hey pistolero, there is no "I" in team. What did I say in March? Lots to learn".
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| 2009-07-27 9:07 PM in reply to: #2310553 |
Pro 3932 Irvine, California | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly I'm more in Lance's camp than Contador's, to be sure. I think Lance showed himself to be more of a team player than AC, although some might cynically state that this only happened once Lance realized he didn't have a realistic chance to win. That being said, however, I do think it was less than classy for Lance to dart off for dinner with the Radio Shack folks after the stage on Mont Ventoux. And one final thought -- is it possible we're all being played by Lance and AC? Maybe they are just staging this public "clash" just to drum up more interest in cycling? Things that make you go hmmmmm. |
| 2009-07-27 9:32 PM in reply to: #2310553 |
Science Nerd 28760 Redwood City, California | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly I thought the two tweets from Lance were pretty interesting today. I hadn't seen the Contador article when I read these, so I was a little confused: "Seeing these comments from AC. If I were him I'd drop this drivel and start thanking his team. w/o them, he doesn't win." "hey pistolero, there is no "i" in "team". what did i say in March? Lots to learn. Restated." This one was written by Axel Merckx and then reposted by Lance: "A champion is also measured on how much he respect his teammates and opponents. You can win a race on your own not a grand tour" |
| 2009-07-27 11:21 PM in reply to: #2310553 |
| Carrollton, TX | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly There's no doubt that Lance has made a LOT of friends in the cycling world. It was obvious watching the last stage in the peleton, it seemed he talked to at least half of the riders. AC, well, not so much. I saw him chatting with maybe 1 or 2 guys. While he was obviously the best rider this year on the team, it seems the rift was there from the get go. Nobody really knows the complete dynamic of their relationship, but it would appear to me that AC had less of his team's support even when he was obviously the best... why is that? It appeared to me that he made his own bed, and for apologists to feel sorry for him doesn't really make much sense. If he prefers to be the lone ranger (pistols anyone?), maybe he should go into time trialing instead of touring as a team. |
| 2009-07-28 9:06 AM in reply to: #2310553 |
| Member 198 | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly Why is it that Contador gets ripped by press and fans for dropping Kloden, yet Lance screws over Hincapie, a guy who help him win 7 Tours, and everyone makes excuses for him, blames Garmin, or just says "Well, it's a race, that's how it goes?" (Yeah, Hincapie wasn't on his team this, but still, he could've thrown him a bone with no risk to himself.) |
| 2009-07-28 9:25 AM in reply to: #2312223 |
Expert 1139 Austin | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly cpfint - 2009-07-28 9:06 AM Why is it that Contador gets ripped by press and fans for dropping Kloden, yet Lance screws over Hincapie, a guy who help him win 7 Tours, and everyone makes excuses for him, blames Garmin, or just says "Well, it's a race, that's how it goes?" (Yeah, Hincapie wasn't on his team this, but still, he could've thrown him a bone with no risk to himself.) Terrible argument and it's already been addressed. As Lance said the peleton can't afford to let the breakaway get a 15 minute lead in the tour de france that just isn't going to happen. When astana started pulling the group the gap was smaller then when they stopped. If anyone is to blame it's Garmin for pulling for no reason, or Columbia trying to set up Cav for the sprint at the end which we know was useless anyways. |
| 2009-07-28 9:31 AM in reply to: #2310553 |
Giver 18427 | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly Why isn't anyone talking about how LA flaked on the post-Tour Astana victory party in favor of hanging out with his Radio Shack buddies? |
| 2009-07-28 9:37 AM in reply to: #2312299 |
Pro 3705 Vestavia Hills | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly Also, Astana quit the pace making after winnowing the gap to a more reasonable level. When abandoned then Garmin took to the front and drove the pace. Had Astana stopped sooner - or even not started at all - then it is likely that another team would have stepped in as I believe that the setinment is that a breakaway cannot be affording too much of a time gap in that stage of the race. That said, I am with you on the sentiment that I wished Hincappie could have worn yellow as well. Chalk it up to a similar fraction of a second that kept Lane out of yellow this year. I hope that there are no ill feelings on Hincappies part. F1longhorn - 2009-07-28 10:25 AM cpfint - 2009-07-28 9:06 AM Why is it that Contador gets ripped by press and fans for dropping Kloden, yet Lance screws over Hincapie, a guy who help him win 7 Tours, and everyone makes excuses for him, blames Garmin, or just says "Well, it's a race, that's how it goes?" (Yeah, Hincapie wasn't on his team this, but still, he could've thrown him a bone with no risk to himself.) Terrible argument and it's already been addressed. As Lance said the peleton can't afford to let the breakaway get a 15 minute lead in the tour de france that just isn't going to happen. When astana started pulling the group the gap was smaller then when they stopped. If anyone is to blame it's Garmin for pulling for no reason, or Columbia trying to set up Cav for the sprint at the end which we know was useless anyways. |
| 2009-07-28 9:53 AM in reply to: #2311529 |
Champion 6627 Rochester Hills, Michigan Gold member | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly Tripolar - 2009-07-27 10:07 PM And one final thought -- is it possible we're all being played by Lance and AC? Maybe they are just staging this public "clash" just to drum up more interest in cycling? Things that make you go hmmmmm. World Cycling Entertainment! WCE RAW! |
| 2009-07-28 10:07 AM in reply to: #2312321 |
Master 1790 Tyler, TX | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly run4yrlif - 2009-07-28 9:31 AM Why isn't anyone talking about how LA flaked on the post-Tour Astana victory party in favor of hanging out with his Radio Shack buddies? Once they finished in Paris (and even before) LA had greater personal interest in drumming up buzz for Radio Shack as that's his future. I'm sure Radio Shack has been quite pleased with the recent publicity. I'd probably do the same thing too, though snubbing my teammates by not showing up isn't too classy. Out of curiosity, how much money did LA make for his third place finish and Astana's first place finish? I know he didn't pull a salary from Astana, but the extra prize money must be OK. Brian |
| 2009-07-28 10:42 AM in reply to: #2312418 |
Champion 23360 Taser-World | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly famelec - 2009-07-28 11:07 AM Out of curiosity, how much money did LA make for his third place finish and Astana's first place finish? I know he didn't pull a salary from Astana, but the extra prize money must be OK. Brian I've read that often, all the prize money is divided equally among the entire team (including riders, support personnel, etc.) (The top riders often get a lot of money from endorsements. AND they will probably have awesome contracts because of their wins. So it seems fair to me that the prize money gets spread among everyone who helped support that top rider.)  ETA: Here's a link to the TdF prize money: http://www.letour.fr/2009/TDF/LIVE/us/reglements.html Edited by D001 2009-07-28 10:52 AM |
| 2009-07-28 1:58 PM in reply to: #2312533 |
Elite 2998 Fishers, Indiana | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly D001 - 2009-07-28 10:42 AM famelec - 2009-07-28 11:07 AM Out of curiosity, how much money did LA make for his third place finish and Astana's first place finish? I know he didn't pull a salary from Astana, but the extra prize money must be OK. I've read that often, all the prize money is divided equally among the entire team (including riders, support personnel, etc.) (The top riders often get a lot of money from endorsements. AND they will probably have awesome contracts because of their wins. So it seems fair to me that the prize money gets spread among everyone who helped support that top rider.) Brian ETA: Here's a link to the TdF prize money: http://www.letour.fr/2009/TDF/LIVE/us/reglements.html They did a piece on Versus about this during the tour and said exactly the above--it is split up among the team as a whole. They also said that Lance didn't keep ANY of the money from ANY of his 7 wins. Edited by TexasMPGal 2009-07-28 1:59 PM |
| 2009-07-28 2:37 PM in reply to: #2310553 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly I can't help to wonder how come pre-LA there was no mention as to AC been a bad teammmate in Astana and now all of the sudden he is. As I said on another thread, the reports as to some of the things that went on team Astana on other non-American news venues are different. I would be hesitant to make up my mind as to who played the biggest role for the team's problem without knowing more and getting info from different places. But given some of the stuff that we saw(LA interviews and twitter) I would lie if I don't think AC is at least partially telling the truth. In the end I like them both and admire them as cyclists, but it is kinda funny (though not unexpected) how many in here place the entire blame on AC when probably it was a mix between AC, LA and JB. IMO the biggest mistake of AC was to be in the same team as LA, stand up against him and beat him head to head. The fun part for us cycling fans will be the battle for next year. I personally don't care what they say off the bike, I enjoy watching the tour with or without LA. |
| 2009-07-28 3:06 PM in reply to: #2311115 |
Veteran 214 Barrington, NJ | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly gerald12 - 2009-07-27 5:51 PM I guess I see things differently than what is posted here. It looked to me that Armstrong was out for himself and not the other way around. That was established from day one with his comments. I actually think that Armstrong was the third best rider on the team behind Contador and Kloden. As far as the "pistol shoot", he has been doing that for awhile and in other races. Kind of like Cavendish doing his "telephone" thing at the end of sprints, how many got after that? If Contador comes in next year in the shape he was this year, no way Armstong beats him. I do not care what Armstong does in the off season. Age catches up with everyone and he is not the same rider he once was. Also I wonder why Johan was not at the awards, I guess that shows class? I thought the way Armstrong acted at the podium did not show much class either. But these are just my opinions. I like Armstrong but come on. Johan was there, handed the yellow jersey to whomever put it on AC. |
| 2009-07-28 3:13 PM in reply to: #2310553 |
Veteran 214 Barrington, NJ | Subject: RE: Winning Ugly I think its a clash of egos. I imagine LA probably thought he should have received more respect as a 7-time winner from AC when he joined the team. If I recall correctly AC orginally said he wouldn't ride with Astana if LA were on the team. I would imagine AC's ego took a bit of a pounding when Astana welcomed LA to the team, since I'm sure he thought of himself as the clear team leader and GC contender. AC was clearly the stronger rider and probably fed off whatever slights he felt he was getting from the team. Real or believed, that kind of thing can definitely motivate someone. I don't think LA has it in him to win another tour, but I wouldn't be surprised if he recruits a top team to ride next year and with if their sole mission is to destroy AC's chances of repeating if LA isn't in yellow at some point toward the end of the tour. |
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