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2012-10-01 12:44 PM

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Subject: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom

I'll try to keep this short. I have my own thoughts on this, but clearly I am missing something. 

The question: why do sports fans refer to "we" or "us" when discussing what other people do? 

Examples: we beat the Eagles. We got the first round draft pick. We scored late in the fourth quarter. 

Why I don't get it/ my bias: 

You weren't there. THEY did it. You are happy that they did. OK. But when did it become "we?" 

I had a friend who is a football fan tell me "the fan is the 12th man." Yeah, ok, that sounds great as a way to pump up support, sell shirts, fill seats, etc etc... 

Caveat: I've never gotten it. I tried being a Steelers fan for a season, and it was a lame attempt. (I am in a family of women Steeler nation fanatics, on all sides.) And as a kid, I was in the band. I played little league, and one season of AYSO soccer. So there is definitely some lingering other-ness about my relationship with "sports." As I make clear, I was always the fat kid, and I'm only now in my 40s doing something about it. 

But it's not just former athletes. I know sports fans who speak this way who were never on a team, never picked for sports, and some who were the victims of bullying by the sports culture of high school. And yet, they spend all this emotional energy on cheering on millionaires playing a random ball game, and think they are part of it. 

It's clearly a deeper sociological phenomenon than just sports, but in the good old US of A, this is where it manifests most loudly, and in the fall, our #1 team sport is most conspicuous. 

Will I just never "get it?" I had another sports fan friend try to put it in terms he thought I'd understand, as a fan of some bands I've gone to see multiple times. I get that we all have different interests. I don't mean to be one of those people who says "my interests are awesome and clearly superior, while yours suck." But I do see a major difference: I've never gone to a show and said "we played song x." And I do believe the crowd is part of the experience at a concert. 

I'm just really hung up on the first person pronoun. 

Really seeking insights. 



2012-10-01 12:47 PM
in reply to: #4435208

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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom
It's very simple.

It's "we" when your team wins. It's "they" when your team loses.

2012-10-01 12:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom

It makes it more fun for some people.

 

 

2012-10-01 12:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom

I agree with the use of "we" and "us" as stupid.  It makes me think that those using it are trying desperately to cling to some pipe dream of being a professional athlete.

But, I guess it would make any conversations between those discussing a game much easier to understand than if both teams were referred to as "they."



Edited by jasonatkins 2012-10-01 12:52 PM
2012-10-01 1:10 PM
in reply to: #4435208

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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom
I read this sort of dumb article last week that tried to measure baseball broadcasters’ degree of objectivity by counting the number of times they used the words “we” or “us” to describe what their team was doing. It was pretty unscientific but it did refer to some study that suggested that, as traditional family and other units have broken down, people look to identify with other groups and so their allegiance with sports teams has taken on some of that “need to belong”. I think RealSports said the same thing in a piece I saw last week about fan violence.
2012-10-01 1:11 PM
in reply to: #4435208

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Alpharetta, Georgia
Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom
I don't think it's UNnatural to feel like part of something like a sports team, especially if you are an alumni of the school. Kind of like when you cheer for your country in the Olympics - people feel engaged and a sense of pride as part of something larger, even though they don't directly participate.

Edited by lisac957 2012-10-01 1:12 PM


2012-10-01 1:18 PM
in reply to: #4435214

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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom
As fans, we invest a lot into the teams we choose to follow-- our time, our money and our emotions.

In my case, I even own a part of my team, even if that share of ownership entitles me to no privilege beyond getting to attend an annual stockholder's meeting.

I don't harbor any pipe dream of being a professional athlete. But I do identify with my team. I do feel they represent my state in a way that's far more unifying than any politician possibly could, and in the same way the US Olympic team represents the U.S. in international competition.

I do feel that following my team provides me with a kind of kinship with others who follow my team that transcends any other trait that may differentiate us-- skin color, religion, gender, socio-economic status. I may have nothing in common with another person, but if they are wearing the jersey of my team, we instantly have a common ground. There's also a shared history and tradition there that binds us all as followers of the same team-- we can discuss plays and players from decades ago in a way that fans of different teams never could. It's a shared culture that often spans generations. We are of the same unspoken fraternity. Doubt that? Say you're a Packers fan and walk into a Packers bar full of strangers in Sydney, Australia, as I once did.

Given that people of of the same nation or members of the same religion have no problem identifying themselves as "we", I see no problem with fans of the same team doing it.

It's also important to keep in mind that sure, as fans of a team, we root for individual players of team. But we also ultimately recognize that players come and go. The team always remains (well, except for those that pick up and move.) So, we're not so much rooting for a bunch of millionaires that we have little connection with, but for the organizations they play for, which have become an inextricable part of our lives over many decades. I think Brett Favre learned about that.







2012-10-01 1:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom

lisac957 - 2012-10-01 11:11 AM I don't think it's UNnatural to feel like part of something like a sports team, especially if you are an alumni of the school. Kind of like when you cheer for your country in the Olympics - people feel engaged and a sense of pride as part of something larger, even though they don't directly participate.

^^^Yes. And it keeps me connected to my home/family/roots. I don't usually use "we" when talking about my "home" team, but I can understand why people do.

Besides, ever buy a ticket to a game? There's your "we". Sealed

2012-10-01 1:30 PM
in reply to: #4435268

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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom

Of course "WE" didn't play the game.  They did.

But that's been the accepted way of talking about your sports team for just about as long as we HAD sports team.

And the whole them/we/us thing has been fodder for jokes for almost as long as that.

Same joke/conversation, new day.

2012-10-01 1:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom
I refer to Nebraska football in the `we' sense, as in `I can't believe how bad we are this year.'

But I refer to Dallas football in the `they' sense, as in `I can't believe how bad the Cowboys are this year.'

I grew up in Nebraska so I identify with the team as `my' hometown team. I have been a lifelong fan of the Cowboys but have never lived in Dallas so I don't identify with them as `my' hometown team. Odd ... but still, that's just how it is.

I am a Husker. I'm a fan of the Cowboys.
2012-10-01 1:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom

Over think much?

It is just a use of language... when I say "my" team... do you honestly think I own it? No it's just "my" team I root for.

Why in the world would anyone think when I say "we" scored a TD... that I would mean it literally... every one knows I don't play for the Broncos.

It's just a convenience thing. And yes there is a connection of the two things... but not a literal one of ownership or membership, just a fan and team thing.



2012-10-01 1:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom
powerman - 2012-10-01 1:41 PM

Over think much?

It is just a use of language... when I say "my" team... do you honestly think I own it? No it's just "my" team I root for.

Why in the world would anyone think when I say "we" scored a TD... that I would mean it literally... every one knows I don't play for the Broncos.

It's just a convenience thing. And yes there is a connection of the two things... but not a literal one of ownership or membership, just a fan and team thing.

I think you're dismissing a large part of the population that think they literally have an effect on the outcome of a game.  Like poor little Casey here, who didn't want to put the sparkles on her nails, but did because her sister said it would be pretty.  And she ended up costing the Packers the Superbowl.  Good job Casey.  Pretty sure she says "we won" or "we scored". 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeTX76dLdBw&feature=related



Edited by kevin_trapp 2012-10-01 2:00 PM
2012-10-01 2:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom

You are NOT alone!

I have always wondered this as well.  Perhaps I've never understood the fan concept.  I think that unless you have actually helped the team in some actual manner you can't be a 'part' of that team.  Same goes with college sports.  Unless you are an alumni, how in the world is that 'your' team.

I've heard many people discussing a UGa game and I will ask the question:  Oh, what year did you graduate?  More times than no, they never attended.  I just don't get it.

For those that say, "Well, we pay for the tickets and the shirts so that's how we are part of the team."  Are you also part of the Symphony or part of Cirque du Soleil when you buy tickets to go see them?  Did "you" do that cool acrobatic move?  Same concept.

2012-10-01 2:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom
If you do not understand it, you never will!
2012-10-01 2:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom
So they can sell more jerseys.   That is another thread, but I really dont get the idea of an adult walking around with another persons name on their back.     
2012-10-01 2:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom
Marvarnett - 2012-10-01 2:16 PM

You are NOT alone!

I have always wondered this as well.  Perhaps I've never understood the fan concept.  I think that unless you have actually helped the team in some actual manner you can't be a 'part' of that team.  Same goes with college sports.  Unless you are an alumni, how in the world is that 'your' team.

I've heard many people discussing a UGa game and I will ask the question:  Oh, what year did you graduate?  More times than no, they never attended.  I just don't get it.

For those that say, "Well, we pay for the tickets and the shirts so that's how we are part of the team."  Are you also part of the Symphony or part of Cirque du Soleil when you buy tickets to go see them?  Did "you" do that cool acrobatic move?  Same concept.

You don't think fans help their team at home?



2012-10-01 3:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom

cardenas1 - 2012-10-01 2:50 PM So they can sell more jerseys.   That is another thread, but I really dont get the idea of an adult walking around with another persons name on their back.     

 

so do you wear Calvin Kline or Ralph Lauren???

2012-10-01 3:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom
it fills the hole in their heart.
2012-10-01 3:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom
crowny2 - 2012-10-01 12:51 PM
Marvarnett - 2012-10-01 2:16 PM

You are NOT alone!

I have always wondered this as well.  Perhaps I've never understood the fan concept.  I think that unless you have actually helped the team in some actual manner you can't be a 'part' of that team.  Same goes with college sports.  Unless you are an alumni, how in the world is that 'your' team.

I've heard many people discussing a UGa game and I will ask the question:  Oh, what year did you graduate?  More times than no, they never attended.  I just don't get it.

For those that say, "Well, we pay for the tickets and the shirts so that's how we are part of the team."  Are you also part of the Symphony or part of Cirque du Soleil when you buy tickets to go see them?  Did "you" do that cool acrobatic move?  Same concept.

You don't think fans help their team at home?

That is exactly what I thought! The Seattle Sounders fans certainly have an effect on home matches. That stadium gets louder than just about anything I have ever heard.

I did not get it either until I found a sport and team I came to love. Now when I talk with co-workers about them, it is using the we phrases. However I talk about the Seahawks or Mariners without any emotional attachment

2012-10-01 3:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom
sounds like another, "I don't understand it so I must ridicule it" position.

A lot like athletes towards their non-athletic coworkers, like non-athletic coworkers towards their athletic coworkers. Many, many other examples.

I don't get why it matters to others about such petty horsehockey. Perhaps finding another hobby will make life more fulfilling and negate the necessity of having to belittle others. Or not. Don't much care either way.



2012-10-01 4:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom

DanielG - 2012-10-01 4:58 PM sounds like another, "I don't understand it so I must ridicule it" position. A lot like athletes towards their non-athletic coworkers, like non-athletic coworkers towards their athletic coworkers. Many, many other examples. I don't get why it matters to others about such petty horsehockey. Perhaps finding another hobby will make life more fulfilling and negate the necessity of having to belittle others. Or not. Don't much care either way.

Wow man, just asked a question. Who pissed in your cheerios?

Where did I belittle others? I have been fascinated with this for years, and I really do want to understand it. That's why I asked. A large number of people I love, and care about, and until I had children, would have taken a bullet for, are in this category. I want to understand them, not belittle them. I don't know how you got that out of my question, and clarifying statements on how I see it. I want to understand where I am amiss. 

You want belittling? Try being an adult male in the US without any sports loyalty and admitting it readily among groups of "regular guys." So I question "what's the big deal?" I didn't say "anyone who thinks this way is clearly stupid." Or anything like it. 

I've been on the receiving end of "I don't understand it so I ridicule it." I know what that looks like. I see it happen to others all the time. I think I'm pretty tuned into it. I don't think that's at all what I have expressed here. Now, ask me about the Juggalos, and I admit my failing as a human being that I can't help but do exactly what you describe. I really don't think I did that here. 



2012-10-01 4:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom

jford2309 - 2012-10-01 3:29 PM If you do not understand it, you never will!

If that really is the case, I will accept that and move on. 

I have this crazy idea that maybe by asking other people's opinions, I might come to a better understanding of something outside my own personal ideas/bias/experience. I know that's not fashionable these days. Or it's at least, suspect. See above.

2012-10-01 4:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom
TheClaaaw - 2012-10-01 2:12 PM

jford2309 - 2012-10-01 3:29 PM If you do not understand it, you never will!

If that really is the case, I will accept that and move on. 

I have this crazy idea that maybe by asking other people's opinions, I might come to a better understanding of something outside my own personal ideas/bias/experience. I know that's not fashionable these days. Or it's at least, suspect. See above.

Here are just a couple examples.  Maybe it's just the "ease" of discussing it OR maybe taking ownership?

In highschool, if your debate team or soccer/basketball/football team beat the school down the street, do you say "we" (as in SCHOOL) defeated them or do you want the kids to say our basketball team beat their basketball team?

Same for college. 

What about a city or region?  The Broncos are Denver's team.  They represent Denver and their fans.  So is it so far fetched to say WE (as in Denver, or Bronco fans) destroyed Oakland?  I'm sure the almost 2 million people of Denver don't think they were taking snaps.

What about the National team that just lost the Ryder Cup?  Do you say "we" lost to Europe or the representatives of out country?  Olympics?

What about a war?  When we say WE won WWII.  Can't we say as a nation and alies, we won?  Or do we say our military defeated their military?

If Obama wins again, is it accaptable for the democrats to say "we" won?  Or do they say, BO, the presidential candidate for the Democratic party, won?

I think the whole concept of using "we" is much further reaching than just sports and is common use...  Not sure why it needs to be questioned or explained.

2012-10-01 4:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom

I worked for 4 professional sports teams....and still felt weird about using "we" or "us" in conversation in talking about the team. Sure I was a part of it and worked in a capacity where I was with the players but still felt strange in using the terms.

I understand why people use the terms.....it's being a part of something.


But....for tonight....I'll use the word we.....cuz "we" about to lay the smack down on the bears.




2012-10-01 4:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Explain the "We" In Sports Fandom

bradleyd3 - 2012-10-01 2:26 PM I worked for 4 professional sports teams....and still felt weird about using "we" or "us" in conversation in talking about the team. Sure I was a part of it and worked in a capacity where I was with the players but still felt strange in using the terms. I understand why people use the terms.....it's being a part of something. But....for tonight....I'll use the word we.....cuz "we" about to lay the smack down on the bears.

In GENERAL, I personally don't use "we" either.  I didn't play.  But I will use in on occasion.  And understand when it is used and accept it without getting too bent out of shape and realize that THEY don't think they played either and just using the phrase.

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