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 2023-02-16 8:33 AM in reply to: amd723 |
Master  9705     Raleigh, NC area |  Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!Originally posted by amd723 Originally posted by jmkizer I just saw this and thought that I would share: Super League Triathlon (SLT) has continued its rapid expansion plans by acquiring the iconic New York and Chicago Triathlons. I find this to be interesting because it seems to signal Life Time exiting triathlon. Are they going all in on gravel/mtb instead? It looks like these were the only to triathlons that they had left. With Leadville, Big Sugar, Silver Rush, Crusher in the Tusher, Tahoe, Unbound, and Sea Otter in their cycling quiver, it seems that way. I am not familiar with Life Time events, but see by its web site its only presence in Florida is in Miami for a few run events. As far as them exiting triathlon and moving more toward gravel that's probably a smart move. Gravel seems to be on the rise and triathlon waning. And, just my speculation, it's probably less expensive to put on a gravel event v triathlon. I suspect that it allows the race directors to specialize a bit more. Anyway, it just caught my attention and I thought that I'd share. |
| 2023-02-16 9:00 AM in reply to: jmkizer |
Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by jmkizer Originally posted by amd723 Originally posted by jmkizer I just saw this and thought that I would share: Super League Triathlon (SLT) has continued its rapid expansion plans by acquiring the iconic New York and Chicago Triathlons. I find this to be interesting because it seems to signal Life Time exiting triathlon. Are they going all in on gravel/mtb instead? It looks like these were the only to triathlons that they had left. With Leadville, Big Sugar, Silver Rush, Crusher in the Tusher, Tahoe, Unbound, and Sea Otter in their cycling quiver, it seems that way. I am not familiar with Life Time events, but see by its web site its only presence in Florida is in Miami for a few run events. As far as them exiting triathlon and moving more toward gravel that's probably a smart move. Gravel seems to be on the rise and triathlon waning. And, just my speculation, it's probably less expensive to put on a gravel event v triathlon. I suspect that it allows the race directors to specialize a bit more. Anyway, it just caught my attention and I thought that I'd share. Glad you did. |
| 2023-02-16 1:10 PM in reply to: amd723 |
1520 Cypress, Texas | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! So...I made a discovery on my TriDot run #2. Running Slow Hurts! Over the past few years I have noticed that when I do fast tempo runs, speed work at the track, and long runs that are close to race pace that my legs feel loose and relaxed all week long, but when I take a recovery week my legs get sore. I couldn't figure out why I was only sore when I was doing slow recovery stuff. I just through that doing high intensity stuff day-in and day-out that my body never went into full recovery mode because it was triggered by a reduction in volume/intensity. I learned yesterday I was wrong. The TriDot program I am a little over a week into prescribed that I do 10' running @ 20-80 sec/mi slower than what I normally do my Z1 recovery and Endurance work at. Then 10' running at Z3, 10' @ Z4, then 20-40' @ 20-80 sec/mi slower than my normal warm-up/Cool-down/endurance pace. The warm-up was easy the Z3 and Z4 stuff was easy, then I got to the cool down and my legs started to get the same type of pain I get on recovery weeks. I realized that when I do fast stuff my contact time with the group is almost nothing and my impact angel with the ground is more horizontal that vertical. At the slow pace, my contact time with the ground was very long and my impact angle was more vertical than it was horizontal to where with every step at the slow pace I could feel the jarring shoot up my legs. |
| 2023-02-16 2:15 PM in reply to: BlueBoy26 |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by BlueBoy26 So...I made a discovery on my TriDot run #2. Running Slow Hurts! Over the past few years I have noticed that when I do fast tempo runs, speed work at the track, and long runs that are close to race pace that my legs feel loose and relaxed all week long, but when I take a recovery week my legs get sore. I couldn't figure out why I was only sore when I was doing slow recovery stuff. I just through that doing high intensity stuff day-in and day-out that my body never went into full recovery mode because it was triggered by a reduction in volume/intensity. I learned yesterday I was wrong. The TriDot program I am a little over a week into prescribed that I do 10' running @ 20-80 sec/mi slower than what I normally do my Z1 recovery and Endurance work at. Then 10' running at Z3, 10' @ Z4, then 20-40' @ 20-80 sec/mi slower than my normal warm-up/Cool-down/endurance pace. The warm-up was easy the Z3 and Z4 stuff was easy, then I got to the cool down and my legs started to get the same type of pain I get on recovery weeks. I realized that when I do fast stuff my contact time with the group is almost nothing and my impact angel with the ground is more horizontal that vertical. At the slow pace, my contact time with the ground was very long and my impact angle was more vertical than it was horizontal to where with every step at the slow pace I could feel the jarring shoot up my legs. There is certainly an adjustment period! Do you always run by pace or do you do your recovery runs by heart rate? |
| 2023-02-17 9:21 AM in reply to: jmkizer |
| 1520 Cypress, Texas | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by jmkizer Originally posted by BlueBoy26 So...I made a discovery on my TriDot run #2. Running Slow Hurts! Over the past few years I have noticed that when I do fast tempo runs, speed work at the track, and long runs that are close to race pace that my legs feel loose and relaxed all week long, but when I take a recovery week my legs get sore. I couldn't figure out why I was only sore when I was doing slow recovery stuff. I just through that doing high intensity stuff day-in and day-out that my body never went into full recovery mode because it was triggered by a reduction in volume/intensity. I learned yesterday I was wrong. The TriDot program I am a little over a week into prescribed that I do 10' running @ 20-80 sec/mi slower than what I normally do my Z1 recovery and Endurance work at. Then 10' running at Z3, 10' @ Z4, then 20-40' @ 20-80 sec/mi slower than my normal warm-up/Cool-down/endurance pace. The warm-up was easy the Z3 and Z4 stuff was easy, then I got to the cool down and my legs started to get the same type of pain I get on recovery weeks. I realized that when I do fast stuff my contact time with the group is almost nothing and my impact angel with the ground is more horizontal that vertical. At the slow pace, my contact time with the ground was very long and my impact angle was more vertical than it was horizontal to where with every step at the slow pace I could feel the jarring shoot up my legs. There is certainly an adjustment period! Do you always run by pace or do you do your recovery runs by heart rate? I ran by heart rate when I was being coached in 2018. I learned to slow way down when going up hills but was never able to get my HR high enough to stay in the prescribed HR zones when I was going down hills and also struggled to get the HR high enough when doing Z4 tempo work. So I mostly just run by pace now. I do watch the HR during races. I lock into the planned pace and then do everything I can to drop my HR without dropping my pace and will ease off the planned pace if I need to to keep the HR under planned thresholds. This morning I did a 1hr 45min long run. The TriDot plan said to do 18 minutes in Z3 (6:27 pace or 150 BPM) and 127 mins in Z2 (7:33 pace or 124 BPM). The results were the following: Z1: 0 (planned), 22 (pace), 1 (Heart Rate) Z2: 127 (planned), 60 (Pace), 93 (Heart Rate) Z3: 18 (planned), 23 (Pace), 12 (Heart Rate) Z4: 0 (planned), 1 (Pace), 0 (Hear Rate) Based on pace my Z3 tempo work ends up at marathon race pace and based on HR it ends up at 10K race pace. That is big difference. I have to use pace for fastest workouts or all the training plans will have me running at the wrong intensity since my HR doesn't follow the standard percentage based zones. Based on pace my Z2 warm-up, endurance, cool-down zones are off due to my HR not following the standard percentage paces zone. So for Z2 I have to use HR. |
| 2023-02-17 9:53 AM in reply to: BlueBoy26 |
Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by BlueBoy26 Originally posted by jmkizer Originally posted by BlueBoy26 So...I made a discovery on my TriDot run #2. Running Slow Hurts! Over the past few years I have noticed that when I do fast tempo runs, speed work at the track, and long runs that are close to race pace that my legs feel loose and relaxed all week long, but when I take a recovery week my legs get sore. I couldn't figure out why I was only sore when I was doing slow recovery stuff. I just through that doing high intensity stuff day-in and day-out that my body never went into full recovery mode because it was triggered by a reduction in volume/intensity. I learned yesterday I was wrong. The TriDot program I am a little over a week into prescribed that I do 10' running @ 20-80 sec/mi slower than what I normally do my Z1 recovery and Endurance work at. Then 10' running at Z3, 10' @ Z4, then 20-40' @ 20-80 sec/mi slower than my normal warm-up/Cool-down/endurance pace. The warm-up was easy the Z3 and Z4 stuff was easy, then I got to the cool down and my legs started to get the same type of pain I get on recovery weeks. I realized that when I do fast stuff my contact time with the group is almost nothing and my impact angel with the ground is more horizontal that vertical. At the slow pace, my contact time with the ground was very long and my impact angle was more vertical than it was horizontal to where with every step at the slow pace I could feel the jarring shoot up my legs. There is certainly an adjustment period! Do you always run by pace or do you do your recovery runs by heart rate? I ran by heart rate when I was being coached in 2018. I learned to slow way down when going up hills but was never able to get my HR high enough to stay in the prescribed HR zones when I was going down hills and also struggled to get the HR high enough when doing Z4 tempo work. So I mostly just run by pace now. I do watch the HR during races. I lock into the planned pace and then do everything I can to drop my HR without dropping my pace and will ease off the planned pace if I need to to keep the HR under planned thresholds. This morning I did a 1hr 45min long run. The TriDot plan said to do 18 minutes in Z3 (6:27 pace or 150 BPM) and 127 mins in Z2 (7:33 pace or 124 BPM). The results were the following: Z1: 0 (planned), 22 (pace), 1 (Heart Rate) Z2: 127 (planned), 60 (Pace), 93 (Heart Rate) Z3: 18 (planned), 23 (Pace), 12 (Heart Rate) Z4: 0 (planned), 1 (Pace), 0 (Hear Rate) Based on pace my Z3 tempo work ends up at marathon race pace and based on HR it ends up at 10K race pace. That is big difference. I have to use pace for fastest workouts or all the training plans will have me running at the wrong intensity since my HR doesn't follow the standard percentage based zones. Based on pace my Z2 warm-up, endurance, cool-down zones are off due to my HR not following the standard percentage paces zone. So for Z2 I have to use HR. I am using TriDot (when not nursing my not training related injury) and my understanding from reading posts on its FB page is for zone 2 runs you should run by heart rate, for all other runs go by pace. I HATE running as slowly as my heart rate would require for zone 2, so I don't do it |
I find trying to do the really slow paces even in the speed workouts to be too slow as they make me alter my gait and I feel terrible while running or trying to run like that, so I just run as slowly as feels comfortable. I am a bad "coached" athlete!| 2023-02-17 10:00 AM in reply to: BlueBoy26 |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by BlueBoy26 Originally posted by jmkizer Originally posted by BlueBoy26 So...I made a discovery on my TriDot run #2. Running Slow Hurts! Over the past few years I have noticed that when I do fast tempo runs, speed work at the track, and long runs that are close to race pace that my legs feel loose and relaxed all week long, but when I take a recovery week my legs get sore. I couldn't figure out why I was only sore when I was doing slow recovery stuff. I just through that doing high intensity stuff day-in and day-out that my body never went into full recovery mode because it was triggered by a reduction in volume/intensity. I learned yesterday I was wrong. The TriDot program I am a little over a week into prescribed that I do 10' running @ 20-80 sec/mi slower than what I normally do my Z1 recovery and Endurance work at. Then 10' running at Z3, 10' @ Z4, then 20-40' @ 20-80 sec/mi slower than my normal warm-up/Cool-down/endurance pace. The warm-up was easy the Z3 and Z4 stuff was easy, then I got to the cool down and my legs started to get the same type of pain I get on recovery weeks. I realized that when I do fast stuff my contact time with the group is almost nothing and my impact angel with the ground is more horizontal that vertical. At the slow pace, my contact time with the ground was very long and my impact angle was more vertical than it was horizontal to where with every step at the slow pace I could feel the jarring shoot up my legs. There is certainly an adjustment period! Do you always run by pace or do you do your recovery runs by heart rate? I ran by heart rate when I was being coached in 2018. I learned to slow way down when going up hills but was never able to get my HR high enough to stay in the prescribed HR zones when I was going down hills and also struggled to get the HR high enough when doing Z4 tempo work. So I mostly just run by pace now. I do watch the HR during races. I lock into the planned pace and then do everything I can to drop my HR without dropping my pace and will ease off the planned pace if I need to to keep the HR under planned thresholds. This morning I did a 1hr 45min long run. The TriDot plan said to do 18 minutes in Z3 (6:27 pace or 150 BPM) and 127 mins in Z2 (7:33 pace or 124 BPM). The results were the following: Z1: 0 (planned), 22 (pace), 1 (Heart Rate) Z2: 127 (planned), 60 (Pace), 93 (Heart Rate) Z3: 18 (planned), 23 (Pace), 12 (Heart Rate) Z4: 0 (planned), 1 (Pace), 0 (Hear Rate) Based on pace my Z3 tempo work ends up at marathon race pace and based on HR it ends up at 10K race pace. That is big difference. I have to use pace for fastest workouts or all the training plans will have me running at the wrong intensity since my HR doesn't follow the standard percentage based zones. Based on pace my Z2 warm-up, endurance, cool-down zones are off due to my HR not following the standard percentage paces zone. So for Z2 I have to use HR. What I meant to ask was do you use heart rate for recovery runs? Maybe you should give it a try, given the purpose of those runs. |
| 2023-02-17 11:58 AM in reply to: amd723 |
| 1520 Cypress, Texas | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by amd723 Originally posted by BlueBoy26 Originally posted by jmkizer Originally posted by BlueBoy26 So...I made a discovery on my TriDot run #2. Running Slow Hurts! Over the past few years I have noticed that when I do fast tempo runs, speed work at the track, and long runs that are close to race pace that my legs feel loose and relaxed all week long, but when I take a recovery week my legs get sore. I couldn't figure out why I was only sore when I was doing slow recovery stuff. I just through that doing high intensity stuff day-in and day-out that my body never went into full recovery mode because it was triggered by a reduction in volume/intensity. I learned yesterday I was wrong. The TriDot program I am a little over a week into prescribed that I do 10' running @ 20-80 sec/mi slower than what I normally do my Z1 recovery and Endurance work at. Then 10' running at Z3, 10' @ Z4, then 20-40' @ 20-80 sec/mi slower than my normal warm-up/Cool-down/endurance pace. The warm-up was easy the Z3 and Z4 stuff was easy, then I got to the cool down and my legs started to get the same type of pain I get on recovery weeks. I realized that when I do fast stuff my contact time with the group is almost nothing and my impact angel with the ground is more horizontal that vertical. At the slow pace, my contact time with the ground was very long and my impact angle was more vertical than it was horizontal to where with every step at the slow pace I could feel the jarring shoot up my legs. There is certainly an adjustment period! Do you always run by pace or do you do your recovery runs by heart rate? I ran by heart rate when I was being coached in 2018. I learned to slow way down when going up hills but was never able to get my HR high enough to stay in the prescribed HR zones when I was going down hills and also struggled to get the HR high enough when doing Z4 tempo work. So I mostly just run by pace now. I do watch the HR during races. I lock into the planned pace and then do everything I can to drop my HR without dropping my pace and will ease off the planned pace if I need to to keep the HR under planned thresholds. This morning I did a 1hr 45min long run. The TriDot plan said to do 18 minutes in Z3 (6:27 pace or 150 BPM) and 127 mins in Z2 (7:33 pace or 124 BPM). The results were the following: Z1: 0 (planned), 22 (pace), 1 (Heart Rate) Z2: 127 (planned), 60 (Pace), 93 (Heart Rate) Z3: 18 (planned), 23 (Pace), 12 (Heart Rate) Z4: 0 (planned), 1 (Pace), 0 (Hear Rate) Based on pace my Z3 tempo work ends up at marathon race pace and based on HR it ends up at 10K race pace. That is big difference. I have to use pace for fastest workouts or all the training plans will have me running at the wrong intensity since my HR doesn't follow the standard percentage based zones. Based on pace my Z2 warm-up, endurance, cool-down zones are off due to my HR not following the standard percentage paces zone. So for Z2 I have to use HR. I am using TriDot (when not nursing my not training related injury) and my understanding from reading posts on its FB page is for zone 2 runs you should run by heart rate, for all other runs go by pace. I HATE running as slowly as my heart rate would require for zone 2, so I don't do it Yes...I am finding the same thing as I explore TriDot. There are a lot of new things since I did the Pre-Season Program in 2017. The XP numbers are new (a score from 0-100 on how much of the workout was done as prescribed), no Mark Allen videos to explain the purpose of the different types of workouts, The RaceX has got a makeover, etc... Any workout with an intensity over Z2 is prescribed (and given an XP score) by pace while any workout with only Z1 or Z2 zones is prescribed and score by Heart Rate. So, if you have 127 minutes in Z2 + 18 minutes in Z3 the 127 min in Z2 are done by pace and if you have a 20-minute recovery run in Z2 the 20 min Z2 are done by HR. I got scores of 100 in my first two bike workouts which gives you a Unicorn Kudos Bonus. My first run workout I dot a 95. I though the work out was 1 x 10' @ Z3 + 1 x 10' @ Z4 but when I looked at the results is was actually 1x11' and 1 x 11'. So I was one minute short on the Z4 interval. :-( Today i made sure to go a minute long on each for the Z3 intervals, but since I was in Z1 for a lot of the warm-up, recovery (Oops) I came up short again. I don't think I will ever get a perfect swim workout. I had 4 x 200yd @ Z4 in the pool. I figured that would be race pace for me so I hit the 200's as hard as I could. About the first 100yd of the first one was Z4, but after that they all dropped back to Z2. going all out I couldn't get out of Z2 after that. I defiantly need a lot of work at swimming. |
| 2023-02-17 1:18 PM in reply to: BlueBoy26 |
Expert 2811 | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! I needed a few days on this. Janyne had reached out to me the other day and figured I would talk about it to the group. As we are all aware there was a mass shooting at Michigan State University. My son is a senior there and was on campus at the time of the shootings. The shootings occurred at two locations. an academic building know as Berkey Hall and the Student Union. My son left class at Berkey a couple of hours before the shootings, headed to McDonalds for dinner, and then went to the Student Union to study. He could not find a parking spot, so he decided to go to the Law Library instead. One of the students that passed away was in his class (the university has 50,000 students), and one of the students who was injured was in another class. Two of the students who were injured were in overlapping friend groups. He came home Tuesday and is Traumatized. He has had a counseling appointment, and is doing better. The University has closed Berkey Hall for the rest of the semester. I doubt my son will be able to go back to the Union. For me, I graduated from MSU as well as two of our daughters, so this feels like a violation. Someone did something horrible at a place I love. I am also tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed......... |
| 2023-02-17 1:23 PM in reply to: JBacarella |
Royal(PITA) 14270 West Chester, Ohio | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by JBacarella I needed a few days on this. Janyne had reached out to me the other day and figured I would talk about it to the group. As we are all aware there was a mass shooting at Michigan State University. My son is a senior there and was on campus at the time of the shootings. The shootings occurred at two locations. an academic building know as Berkey Hall and the Student Union. My son left class at Berkey a couple of hours before the shootings, headed to McDonalds for dinner, and then went to the Student Union to study. He could not find a parking spot, so he decided to go to the Law Library instead. One of the students that passed away was in his class (the university has 50,000 students), and one of the students who was injured was in another class. Two of the students who were injured were in overlapping friend groups. He came home Tuesday and is Traumatized. He has had a counseling appointment, and is doing better. The University has closed Berkey Hall for the rest of the semester. I doubt my son will be able to go back to the Union. For me, I graduated from MSU as well as two of our daughters, so this feels like a violation. Someone did something horrible at a place I love. I am also tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed......... I am so sorry for the impact that had on your entire family. Events like that are gut-wrenching |
| 2023-02-17 1:24 PM in reply to: JBacarella |
Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by JBacarella I needed a few days on this. Janyne had reached out to me the other day and figured I would talk about it to the group. As we are all aware there was a mass shooting at Michigan State University. My son is a senior there and was on campus at the time of the shootings. The shootings occurred at two locations. an academic building know as Berkey Hall and the Student Union. My son left class at Berkey a couple of hours before the shootings, headed to McDonalds for dinner, and then went to the Student Union to study. He could not find a parking spot, so he decided to go to the Law Library instead. One of the students that passed away was in his class (the university has 50,000 students), and one of the students who was injured was in another class. Two of the students who were injured were in overlapping friend groups. He came home Tuesday and is Traumatized. He has had a counseling appointment, and is doing better. The University has closed Berkey Hall for the rest of the semester. I doubt my son will be able to go back to the Union. For me, I graduated from MSU as well as two of our daughters, so this feels like a violation. Someone did something horrible at a place I love. I am also tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed......... I am so sorry your son experienced what he (and so many others) experienced. It is incomprehensible to me that we as a country are ok with daily mass shootings. Children having to do active shooter drills in school is f&cked up beyond all measure. I'm thankful your son has such a strong support system to help him cope with this horror. |
| 2023-02-17 1:40 PM in reply to: JBacarella |
| 1731 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by JBacarella I needed a few days on this. Janyne had reached out to me the other day and figured I would talk about it to the group. As we are all aware there was a mass shooting at Michigan State University. My son is a senior there and was on campus at the time of the shootings. The shootings occurred at two locations. an academic building know as Berkey Hall and the Student Union. My son left class at Berkey a couple of hours before the shootings, headed to McDonalds for dinner, and then went to the Student Union to study. He could not find a parking spot, so he decided to go to the Law Library instead. One of the students that passed away was in his class (the university has 50,000 students), and one of the students who was injured was in another class. Two of the students who were injured were in overlapping friend groups. He came home Tuesday and is Traumatized. He has had a counseling appointment, and is doing better. The University has closed Berkey Hall for the rest of the semester. I doubt my son will be able to go back to the Union. For me, I graduated from MSU as well as two of our daughters, so this feels like a violation. Someone did something horrible at a place I love. I am also tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed......... I am so sorry  ((( I don't even know what to say! As a mother of a kid in HS and middle school I feel worried and worried every week now (!!!) that the shootings are happening, wondering if my kids' school would be next... It should not be happening! I am glad your son is doing better, but I can only try to imagine how traumatic and awful this must feel... |
| 2023-02-17 4:22 PM in reply to: JBacarella |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by JBacarella I needed a few days on this. Janyne had reached out to me the other day and figured I would talk about it to the group. As we are all aware there was a mass shooting at Michigan State University. My son is a senior there and was on campus at the time of the shootings. The shootings occurred at two locations. an academic building know as Berkey Hall and the Student Union. My son left class at Berkey a couple of hours before the shootings, headed to McDonalds for dinner, and then went to the Student Union to study. He could not find a parking spot, so he decided to go to the Law Library instead. One of the students that passed away was in his class (the university has 50,000 students), and one of the students who was injured was in another class. Two of the students who were injured were in overlapping friend groups. He came home Tuesday and is Traumatized. He has had a counseling appointment, and is doing better. The University has closed Berkey Hall for the rest of the semester. I doubt my son will be able to go back to the Union. For me, I graduated from MSU as well as two of our daughters, so this feels like a violation. Someone did something horrible at a place I love. I am also tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed......... Jim, I am so sorry that this is affecting you and your family this way. {{hugs}} |
| 2023-02-20 6:20 AM in reply to: JBacarella |
| Extreme Veteran 710 Wilmington, NC | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by JBacarella I needed a few days on this. Janyne had reached out to me the other day and figured I would talk about it to the group. As we are all aware there was a mass shooting at Michigan State University. My son is a senior there and was on campus at the time of the shootings. The shootings occurred at two locations. an academic building know as Berkey Hall and the Student Union. My son left class at Berkey a couple of hours before the shootings, headed to McDonalds for dinner, and then went to the Student Union to study. He could not find a parking spot, so he decided to go to the Law Library instead. One of the students that passed away was in his class (the university has 50,000 students), and one of the students who was injured was in another class. Two of the students who were injured were in overlapping friend groups. He came home Tuesday and is Traumatized. He has had a counseling appointment, and is doing better. The University has closed Berkey Hall for the rest of the semester. I doubt my son will be able to go back to the Union. For me, I graduated from MSU as well as two of our daughters, so this feels like a violation. Someone did something horrible at a place I love. I am also tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed......... Wow. I cannot even imagine this and I can see how this will affect your son. No one should have to feel fearful to go out in the world and especially to school. |
| 2023-02-20 11:16 AM in reply to: JBacarella |
| 1520 Cypress, Texas | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by JBacarella I needed a few days on this. Janyne had reached out to me the other day and figured I would talk about it to the group. As we are all aware there was a mass shooting at Michigan State University. My son is a senior there and was on campus at the time of the shootings. The shootings occurred at two locations. an academic building know as Berkey Hall and the Student Union. My son left class at Berkey a couple of hours before the shootings, headed to McDonalds for dinner, and then went to the Student Union to study. He could not find a parking spot, so he decided to go to the Law Library instead. One of the students that passed away was in his class (the university has 50,000 students), and one of the students who was injured was in another class. Two of the students who were injured were in overlapping friend groups. He came home Tuesday and is Traumatized. He has had a counseling appointment, and is doing better. The University has closed Berkey Hall for the rest of the semester. I doubt my son will be able to go back to the Union. For me, I graduated from MSU as well as two of our daughters, so this feels like a violation. Someone did something horrible at a place I love. I am also tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed......... I have never had to go through anything like this and no one ever should have to. There were a few experiences that I had in College that defiantly shaped me though. The most significate what the loss of 9 peers in a car wreck. All of them were members of the university track & cross country team. I also had been a member of that team as a red shirt freshman before putting my education on hold for two years to do missionary work. I kept in touch with the track coach the two years I was away and wanted to rejoin the track & cross country team that the return of my sophomore year. When I got back on campus I went and did a workout with the team and keeping up with all the Freshman and Sophomores, but the guys I had been able to keep up with two years earlier were all Juniors and Seniors and had got a lot faster in the two years I was away and I had not. I decided to sit out the fall cross country season and train on my own, because I was not ready to compete. I wanted to come back in the spring semester with hopes of being ready to compete in track. About 4 weeks after I dropped out of the team is when the wreck took place. Yes, it was a big slap of reality. Just as your son could have been at the student union, I could have been in the vehicle that was hit by a drunk driver and died with the rest of the guys who I had run with 4 week earlier. I had three classes with guys who died in that wreck and was a lab partner with one of them. That wreck was the deciding factor in me giving up on my ambitions to to run in college. Things that had less of an impact on me were the Allen Shepard killing and a suicide jumper from a window of the 12-story student dorms that I had lived in my Freshman year. I didn't know Allen Shepard or the boy who did the suicide jump from the window. The Allen Shepard case got national coverage because it was a hate crime. Allen was beat to death by thugs who singled him out because he was gay. It was the same type of evil that exist in all of these shooting. They could have single anyone out I it happen in the town where I lived. It is scary to have to live with people like that around us. The suicide was done in broad daylight on a school day with lots of people around. I was not there but a close friend told me that she did not see the jump, but heard the sound of him hitting the ground. It happened right where I walked a thousand times and was a reminder of how crazy the world we live in has become. Life is preciouses and most of the time we take it for granted. When things like these shootings happen where we live and to the people we know it is bone chilling. I have heard a lot of stories about people who were out of harms way due to random things like not being able to find a parking space at the student union. I don't believe in random luck. I believe in guardian angles and it is very likely that your son had one. He should take comfort in that. I asked myself why I have had guardian angles and been spared when others who I know who were in the same situation as I was were not. That is hard to deal with but you heal as you look for the purposes to your life and the plan that God has for you. Our prayers are with you and your family. |
| 2023-02-20 5:21 PM in reply to: JBacarella |
Member 2098 Simsbury, Connecticut | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by JBacarella I needed a few days on this. Janyne had reached out to me the other day and figured I would talk about it to the group. As we are all aware there was a mass shooting at Michigan State University. My son is a senior there and was on campus at the time of the shootings. The shootings occurred at two locations. an academic building know as Berkey Hall and the Student Union. My son left class at Berkey a couple of hours before the shootings, headed to McDonalds for dinner, and then went to the Student Union to study. He could not find a parking spot, so he decided to go to the Law Library instead. One of the students that passed away was in his class (the university has 50,000 students), and one of the students who was injured was in another class. Two of the students who were injured were in overlapping friend groups. He came home Tuesday and is Traumatized. He has had a counseling appointment, and is doing better. The University has closed Berkey Hall for the rest of the semester. I doubt my son will be able to go back to the Union. For me, I graduated from MSU as well as two of our daughters, so this feels like a violation. Someone did something horrible at a place I love. I am also tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed......... I don't even know what to say. I cried for weeks after Sandy Hook and I was probably at least 3 degrees away from anyone directly affected that day but being so close it hit home. Sending strength vibes to you and your family. |
| 2023-02-21 12:28 PM in reply to: mtnbikerchk |
| Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Jim, I am sending all the best thoughts and vibes toward your son and you and your family as you all find ways to come to terms with the horrible acts that took place on campus. I'm thankful your son was unhurt physically and hope he heals emotionally. It sounds like you are doing all the right things to help him. |
| 2023-02-21 4:27 PM in reply to: JBacarella |
| 297 | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by JBacarella I needed a few days on this. Janyne had reached out to me the other day and figured I would talk about it to the group. As we are all aware there was a mass shooting at Michigan State University. My son is a senior there and was on campus at the time of the shootings. The shootings occurred at two locations. an academic building know as Berkey Hall and the Student Union. My son left class at Berkey a couple of hours before the shootings, headed to McDonalds for dinner, and then went to the Student Union to study. He could not find a parking spot, so he decided to go to the Law Library instead. One of the students that passed away was in his class (the university has 50,000 students), and one of the students who was injured was in another class. Two of the students who were injured were in overlapping friend groups. He came home Tuesday and is Traumatized. He has had a counseling appointment, and is doing better. The University has closed Berkey Hall for the rest of the semester. I doubt my son will be able to go back to the Union. For me, I graduated from MSU as well as two of our daughters, so this feels like a violation. Someone did something horrible at a place I love. I am also tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed......... Jim - so sorry to hear this. As a father who sent their child off to college for the first time this past year, my thoughts are certainly with you and your son. My hope is that we are all tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed. |
| 2023-02-22 8:42 AM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 14677 Bronze member | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by alaskatri Jim, I hope your son works through this horror as best he can. My sons friend was Viki Soto who was a teacher who saved her kids in class, but was murdered at Sandy Hook. With A LOT of counseling he has recovered, but each new horror event is a relapse. Your son is lucky to have you and his family to help him through.Originally posted by JBacarellaI needed a few days on this. Janyne had reached out to me the other day and figured I would talk about it to the group. As we are all aware there was a mass shooting at Michigan State University. My son is a senior there and was on campus at the time of the shootings. The shootings occurred at two locations. an academic building know as Berkey Hall and the Student Union. My son left class at Berkey a couple of hours before the shootings, headed to McDonalds for dinner, and then went to the Student Union to study. He could not find a parking spot, so he decided to go to the Law Library instead. One of the students that passed away was in his class (the university has 50,000 students), and one of the students who was injured was in another class. Two of the students who were injured were in overlapping friend groups. He came home Tuesday and is Traumatized. He has had a counseling appointment, and is doing better. The University has closed Berkey Hall for the rest of the semester. I doubt my son will be able to go back to the Union. For me, I graduated from MSU as well as two of our daughters, so this feels like a violation. Someone did something horrible at a place I love. I am also tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed......... Jim - so sorry to hear this. As a father who sent their child off to college for the first time this past year, my thoughts are certainly with you and your son. My hope is that we are all tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed. Edited by ceilidh 2023-02-22 8:43 AM |
| 2023-02-22 12:09 PM in reply to: JBacarella |
Member 667 | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by JBacarella I needed a few days on this. Janyne had reached out to me the other day and figured I would talk about it to the group. As we are all aware there was a mass shooting at Michigan State University. My son is a senior there and was on campus at the time of the shootings. The shootings occurred at two locations. an academic building know as Berkey Hall and the Student Union. My son left class at Berkey a couple of hours before the shootings, headed to McDonalds for dinner, and then went to the Student Union to study. He could not find a parking spot, so he decided to go to the Law Library instead. One of the students that passed away was in his class (the university has 50,000 students), and one of the students who was injured was in another class. Two of the students who were injured were in overlapping friend groups. He came home Tuesday and is Traumatized. He has had a counseling appointment, and is doing better. The University has closed Berkey Hall for the rest of the semester. I doubt my son will be able to go back to the Union. For me, I graduated from MSU as well as two of our daughters, so this feels like a violation. Someone did something horrible at a place I love. I am also tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed......... Jim, I am so sorry that your son and your family is going through this. I started to reply to this after you posted but couldn't finish because these shootings really bother me as a retired teacher. They are my biggest fear. Depending on traffic, Columbine HS is about 35-45 minutes from my former school. It seems so far away, but yet at the same time, so close. Here is how Columbine was so far away but still affected us on the other side of Denver: On that April 20th, we knew something was going on because of news reports. We had a medical emergency at our school and it took EMS 2 hours to get to our school because all other units were on scene at Columbine. The unit that showed up was actually the unit I worked for during the summer and on school breaks. The paramedic filled us in more on what was happening. A friend of my husband's family ate lunch with Dave Sanders every day except that day. Instead, he took the day off because they had relatives in town. Two days after Columbine, a pipe bomb was found at our school. Our idiot principal decided not to evacuate us because "it wasn't real." When our school resource officer got there, he over-ruled the idiot, and we were evacuated and bussed to another school. The bomb was real. We had a teacher who was a student at Columbine and in the library, hiding under desks with her classmates. She told us that Klebold and Harris looked at her and said they would let her live. One my late mothers-in-law bosses was the father of one of the shooters. April 16, 2019, all schools in the Denver area were cancelled because a 19-year-old from Florida flew to CO and threatened to shoot up schools. Parents had to come to school and retrieve their children, as all busses were cancelled. Later that night, the CBI highly suggested that districts cancelled classes for the following day due to the threat. Columbine slapped us all in the face with a huge wake up call, but it doesn't end there or even begin at Columbine. In fact, it started before Columbine. One of the first school shooting that has been recorded in our history took place in 1840. While a few have garnered more than just a few days in the news, it was the shooting at Westside Middle School in Arkansas that gained a lot of attention and began changing how a few districts responded to even simple fire drills. This was the school where two boys pulled the fire alarm and then shot students and teachers as they exited the building. From that point on, we never had a fire drill that we didn't know about. We were told in advance and if we weren't told there was going to be a drill, we were instructed to look out our classroom doors before letting students leave the building. One of the wives of a guy on our tri team was a teacher at Sandy Hook. His job brought them to CO that fall. Her friends lost their lives, while she was almost 2,000 miles away feeling helpless. She has survivor's guilt. Uvalde. This one to me is one of the biggest punches in the gut. The first news I saw was on Twitter shortly after their local news reported shots fired at the school. Then nothing for hours. All of the sudden there was a flood of news updates and we learned how horrific this shooting was. I can't describe the feeling I have anytime I hear of a shooting at a school. It's a combination of fear, anger, and helplessness. It was my biggest fear as a teacher - how do I protect my kids? My husband, two nieces, and my brother-in-law are still teaching. Every day I have the same fear of not if but when. What prompted me to finish this post is that currently there are several schools across Colorado that are under a lockdown because of reports of an active shooter in the area or because of bombs placed in the schools. It started with Boulder HS, where Ironman Boulder T2 and Village were located and CU Boulder receiving news that there was an active shooter in the area. Then Aspen School District, Brighton school district, and then they stopped reporting because while they suspect a swatting case at this point, they can't be sure and have to investigate. Something has to be done. Jim, please give your son a huge hug from all of us. Saying sorry that he has to go through this isn't what needs to be said. Unfortunately, I have no idea what does need to be said that will show him that we care and are here for him and your family. |
| 2023-02-22 12:23 PM in reply to: fortissimo |
Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by fortissimo Originally posted by JBacarella I needed a few days on this. Janyne had reached out to me the other day and figured I would talk about it to the group. As we are all aware there was a mass shooting at Michigan State University. My son is a senior there and was on campus at the time of the shootings. The shootings occurred at two locations. an academic building know as Berkey Hall and the Student Union. My son left class at Berkey a couple of hours before the shootings, headed to McDonalds for dinner, and then went to the Student Union to study. He could not find a parking spot, so he decided to go to the Law Library instead. One of the students that passed away was in his class (the university has 50,000 students), and one of the students who was injured was in another class. Two of the students who were injured were in overlapping friend groups. He came home Tuesday and is Traumatized. He has had a counseling appointment, and is doing better. The University has closed Berkey Hall for the rest of the semester. I doubt my son will be able to go back to the Union. For me, I graduated from MSU as well as two of our daughters, so this feels like a violation. Someone did something horrible at a place I love. I am also tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed......... Jim, I am so sorry that your son and your family is going through this. I started to reply to this after you posted but couldn't finish because these shootings really bother me as a retired teacher. They are my biggest fear. Depending on traffic, Columbine HS is about 35-45 minutes from my former school. It seems so far away, but yet at the same time, so close. Here is how Columbine was so far away but still affected us on the other side of Denver: On that April 20th, we knew something was going on because of news reports. We had a medical emergency at our school and it took EMS 2 hours to get to our school because all other units were on scene at Columbine. The unit that showed up was actually the unit I worked for during the summer and on school breaks. The paramedic filled us in more on what was happening. A friend of my husband's family ate lunch with Dave Sanders every day except that day. Instead, he took the day off because they had relatives in town. Two days after Columbine, a pipe bomb was found at our school. Our idiot principal decided not to evacuate us because "it wasn't real." When our school resource officer got there, he over-ruled the idiot, and we were evacuated and bussed to another school. The bomb was real. We had a teacher who was a student at Columbine and in the library, hiding under desks with her classmates. She told us that Klebold and Harris looked at her and said they would let her live. One my late mothers-in-law bosses was the father of one of the shooters. April 16, 2019, all schools in the Denver area were cancelled because a 19-year-old from Florida flew to CO and threatened to shoot up schools. Parents had to come to school and retrieve their children, as all busses were cancelled. Later that night, the CBI highly suggested that districts cancelled classes for the following day due to the threat. Columbine slapped us all in the face with a huge wake up call, but it doesn't end there or even begin at Columbine. In fact, it started before Columbine. One of the first school shooting that has been recorded in our history took place in 1840. While a few have garnered more than just a few days in the news, it was the shooting at Westside Middle School in Arkansas that gained a lot of attention and began changing how a few districts responded to even simple fire drills. This was the school where two boys pulled the fire alarm and then shot students and teachers as they exited the building. From that point on, we never had a fire drill that we didn't know about. We were told in advance and if we weren't told there was going to be a drill, we were instructed to look out our classroom doors before letting students leave the building. One of the wives of a guy on our tri team was a teacher at Sandy Hook. His job brought them to CO that fall. Her friends lost their lives, while she was almost 2,000 miles away feeling helpless. She has survivor's guilt. Uvalde. This one to me is one of the biggest punches in the gut. The first news I saw was on Twitter shortly after their local news reported shots fired at the school. Then nothing for hours. All of the sudden there was a flood of news updates and we learned how horrific this shooting was. I can't describe the feeling I have anytime I hear of a shooting at a school. It's a combination of fear, anger, and helplessness. It was my biggest fear as a teacher - how do I protect my kids? My husband, two nieces, and my brother-in-law are still teaching. Every day I have the same fear of not if but when. What prompted me to finish this post is that currently there are several schools across Colorado that are under a lockdown because of reports of an active shooter in the area or because of bombs placed in the schools. It started with Boulder HS, where Ironman Boulder T2 and Village were located and CU Boulder receiving news that there was an active shooter in the area. Then Aspen School District, Brighton school district, and then they stopped reporting because while they suspect a swatting case at this point, they can't be sure and have to investigate. Something has to be done. Jim, please give your son a huge hug from all of us. Saying sorry that he has to go through this isn't what needs to be said. Unfortunately, I have no idea what does need to be said that will show him that we care and are here for him and your family. There really aren't any words that can effectively convey how much this all stinks. |
| 2023-02-22 12:33 PM in reply to: amd723 |
| Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Does anyone have any free weight training apps/sites/whatever they could recommend? |
| 2023-02-22 1:10 PM in reply to: melbo55 |
Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by melbo55 Does anyone have any free weight training apps/sites/whatever they could recommend? I've not used it, but i've heard good things about the Nike Training Club. As i understand it, there is an app you can download and they have lots of (free) content. I believe they've also teamed up with Netflix and may have some videos on that platform. |
| 2023-02-22 2:26 PM in reply to: amd723 |
Master 4119 Toronto | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by amd723 Originally posted by melbo55 Does anyone have any free weight training apps/sites/whatever they could recommend? I've not used it, but i've heard good things about the Nike Training Club. As i understand it, there is an app you can download and they have lots of (free) content. I believe they've also teamed up with Netflix and may have some videos on that platform. I haven't looked them up but i do know quite a few people who like various series on YouTube. |
| 2023-02-22 2:40 PM in reply to: ceilidh |
Master 4119 Toronto | Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever! Originally posted by ceilidh Originally posted by alaskatri Jim, I hope your son works through this horror as best he can. My sons friend was Viki Soto who was a teacher who saved her kids in class, but was murdered at Sandy Hook. With A LOT of counseling he has recovered, but each new horror event is a relapse. Your son is lucky to have you and his family to help him through. Originally posted by JBacarellaI needed a few days on this. Janyne had reached out to me the other day and figured I would talk about it to the group. As we are all aware there was a mass shooting at Michigan State University. My son is a senior there and was on campus at the time of the shootings. The shootings occurred at two locations. an academic building know as Berkey Hall and the Student Union. My son left class at Berkey a couple of hours before the shootings, headed to McDonalds for dinner, and then went to the Student Union to study. He could not find a parking spot, so he decided to go to the Law Library instead. One of the students that passed away was in his class (the university has 50,000 students), and one of the students who was injured was in another class. Two of the students who were injured were in overlapping friend groups. He came home Tuesday and is Traumatized. He has had a counseling appointment, and is doing better. The University has closed Berkey Hall for the rest of the semester. I doubt my son will be able to go back to the Union. For me, I graduated from MSU as well as two of our daughters, so this feels like a violation. Someone did something horrible at a place I love. I am also tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed......... Jim - so sorry to hear this. As a father who sent their child off to college for the first time this past year, my thoughts are certainly with you and your son. My hope is that we are all tired of kids in our country being needlessly killed. All of this. There aren't really words I can express - i joke about having a squishy heart at work and it's not really a joke, though. It's all unimaginable. Jim, sending all the strength to your family and your son for all the support you can give one another. Find what is comforting and helpful whether or not that is spiritual belief or other ways.
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