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2013-12-14 12:34 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Fred D

Originally posted by marcag No way I will buy a Stages PM

Why?




If you can follow this logic you are as twisted as me

These are real numbers

Let's say I do my test on an accurate powermeter
5min test 330w, 20min test 295w gives CP 283w
So at 70% IM I should be at 198w

At high power (5M) I am 50/50, at 20min I am 52/48
So the stages reads
5min=330, 20min=306 gives 298w FTP

Now I cycle at 70% of that 214.76 but 214.76 ion the stages s actually 198 because I am 54/46 at that lower power

So it kind of works out
But then I bring it into Aerolab and it tells me that I am not very aero because I am generating 215watts to go X mph (when in fact I am generating 198)

So I go out and buy a set of firecrests to improve my Cda and I spent more than an accurate PM to start with

I am kind of kidding, but bottom line is I am getting varying accuracy numbers depending on the power I am putting down.
In my example the worst is in the 180-200watts which is where I spend most of my time

If it was waaaaaay cheaper than a Power2max or PT, maybe, but why buy an innaccurate PM when accurate options exist.

I have to work on my L/R it seems. I wonder how much is cleats, fit, position vs me




Edited by marcag 2013-12-14 12:54 PM


2013-12-14 1:18 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ChrisM

You guys probably saw it on ST, but holy cow, this is like SOS on steriods, O till O sweden

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36o9M4i4hVA

Different race but the 2015 ITU long distance worlds are in Sweden. I would have liked to give qualification for those a crack next summer. I am having trouble deciding on a 2014 race plan. I am leaning toward all Oly with the 70.3 worlds at the end. I will almost certainly volunteer at IMMT.

Marc, come east.

http://challenge-standrews.com/

Wouldn't surprise me if it was an ITU long distance qualifier as well.  I don't think there any other long distance races in New Brunswick.

Are you doing it ?

The only qualifier I've seen officially listed is the Grand Rapids 70.3.  Are there others?  I would SO rather race St. Andrews (not just because it's logistically easier and I still have family from the Scots side there, but it's just way prettier!) - even more so than the Patriot half (a lot of local friends race this one - great feel, from what I'm told).

I have next to zero chance to qualify, but the prospect - however slim - of taking the family to Sweden and doing a monster race (triple-Oly!) is almost too tempting…  and motivating.

OK, let the ridicule for such delusions begin, but that looks like a really nice race regardless.  

Matt

Matt, Grand Rapids is the only US qualifier. Arend & Marc would be looking at Canadian qualifiers. And for long course qualifying, there is a much better shot of making it than you think as it hasn't been as popular in the past from what I know. People do it, but there isn't nearly the buzz like for short course this year, or other more normal years. I think your chances of making it are realistic. Your Timberman time would have been well within the top 20 at Rev3 Anderson this year.

Well, this would fit with my oft repeated assertion that the only way I'm competitive is if no one else shows up (note there is NO pink font here).  

I could see why the Oly is way more popular this year, given the venue for worlds.  I suppose ITU is less popular than an Ironman™ 70.3™ Triathlon™  - (did I miss anything else that they've trademarked? don't want to get sued).  I know the triple Oly format is also an intimidating swim for most of us (Arend excepted).  I kind of like the total race balance, though.

Has there always been this discrepancy in popularity between the distances and the different organizations?

And it makes sense, of course, that the qualifiers for a country would be within that country… (slaps forehead).  Still learning the ins and outs of racing beyond a local sprint.  

btw, honorary citizenship makes it a much more competitive offer to come back North for St. Andrews!  Do you have beer in Canada?

Matt

Edited to fix silly formatting stuff



Edited by mcmanusclan5 2013-12-14 1:20 PM
2013-12-14 1:31 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by brigby1

Matt, Grand Rapids is the only US qualifier. Arend & Marc would be looking at Canadian qualifiers. And for long course qualifying, there is a much better shot of making it than you think as it hasn't been as popular in the past from what I know. People do it, but there isn't nearly the buzz like for short course this year, or other more normal years. I think your chances of making it are realistic. Your Timberman time would have been well within the top 20 at Rev3 Anderson this year.

Been tooling around the interweb trying to learn more about all this.  Did you mean that the ITU long course has been less popular than ITU Oly?  Or ITU long has been less popular than WTC 70.3?  Both?  I'm guessing you probably meant the former but that perhaps both are true?

I wonder why, as logistics are tough for both (London is perhaps easier than Sweden, but not by a ton, as an example).  Similarly, I wonder why ITU long is less popular than the WTC 70.3's.  Just location?  Brand?

I should know all this - I mean I HAVE been reading Lava for over a year now...

None of it's all that important (I just like the idea of Sweden!), but I am curious about how these things take root, in a general way.  Quite the alphabet soup to decipher when you get beyond just having fun locally - or more likely I'm a slow study and haven't really been paying attention!

Matt

2013-12-14 2:00 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by mcmanusclan5
 Do you have beer in Canada?


 We have real beer in Canada
2013-12-14 2:44 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by mcmanusclan5  Do you have beer in Canada?
 We have real beer in Canada

I went to Canada a couple years ago and I was appalled at the number of people I saw ordering $8 Coors Lights when there were perfectly good microbrew options.  What is that about (aboot?)?  Canadians spending money on the pee-water that Americans won't drink?



Edited by ligersandtions 2013-12-14 2:45 PM
2013-12-14 3:44 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Originally posted by brigby1

Matt, Grand Rapids is the only US qualifier. Arend & Marc would be looking at Canadian qualifiers. And for long course qualifying, there is a much better shot of making it than you think as it hasn't been as popular in the past from what I know. People do it, but there isn't nearly the buzz like for short course this year, or other more normal years. I think your chances of making it are realistic. Your Timberman time would have been well within the top 20 at Rev3 Anderson this year.

Been tooling around the interweb trying to learn more about all this.  Did you mean that the ITU long course has been less popular than ITU Oly?  Or ITU long has been less popular than WTC 70.3?  Both?  I'm guessing you probably meant the former but that perhaps both are true?

I wonder why, as logistics are tough for both (London is perhaps easier than Sweden, but not by a ton, as an example).  Similarly, I wonder why ITU long is less popular than the WTC 70.3's.  Just location?  Brand?

I should know all this - I mean I HAVE been reading Lava for over a year now...

None of it's all that important (I just like the idea of Sweden!), but I am curious about how these things take root, in a general way.  Quite the alphabet soup to decipher when you get beyond just having fun locally - or more likely I'm a slow study and haven't really been paying attention!

Matt

I meant as compared to the Oly, but it would also apply to WTC WC.

Quite a few don't even know there is an ITU LC or Nationals LC, and that's due to several things. Among them is how little it's promoted, scheduling keeps moving around from year to year, not sure they pick the most interesting locations, and announcing of it has been very low key and/or kinda late to schedule for. Last year they ran it at Rev3 Anderson in October. This year it's in June. People are picking up that Oly and Sprint are 2 consecutive years at 1 location, but LC doesn't seem to be that way. They did do a lot better at getting the list of locations up for all their nationals races for next year, but previously had been rather late and had confusing cut-off dates for qualifying. Those kept moving with the race date. A lot of people had their bigger races planned by the time they announced, and that tends to go for the short course as well. How many knew that there are 8 different National Champs any one of us could qualify for in various combinations of s, b, and/or r? Plus a few other categories like collegiate or para. Hoping they can build off momentum from Milwaukee as they could really have something here.



2013-12-14 3:54 PM
in reply to: marcag

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2013-12-14 4:07 PM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by Fred D
BONUS points question:

Does anyone know why US beer traditionally has had a much lower alcohol content than Canadian beer? (Even the same brand will often have a lower % in the USA, or at least it did)




So they can drink with Canadians and not pass out ?
2013-12-14 5:46 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Fred D
BONUS points question:

Does anyone know why US beer traditionally has had a much lower alcohol content than Canadian beer? (Even the same brand will often have a lower % in the USA, or at least it did)




So they can drink with Canadians and not pass out ?


HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That literally made me spit my beer (Westmalle Tripel) out on my computer screen! Too, too funny!

Fred - that is an old myth perpetuated by differences in labeling. Canada labels their alcohol content by volume (ABV), while in America we (traditionally) used alcohol by weight (ABW). If memory serves American bottlers began changing that in the mid 1990's, probably due to some side effect of NAFTA if I had to guess. In the mid 90s alcohol content was a lot more important to me than it is now, so the change did not go unnoticed....

And besides, I thought you were a Martini guy?

2013-12-14 6:43 PM
in reply to: 0

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Fred D

Originally posted by marcag No way I will buy a Stages PM

Why?

If you can follow this logic you are as twisted as me These are real numbers Let's say I do my test on an accurate powermeter 5min test 330w, 20min test 295w gives CP 283w So at 70% IM I should be at 198w At high power (5M) I am 50/50, at 20min I am 52/48 So the stages reads 5min=330, 20min=306 gives 298w FTP Now I cycle at 70% of that 214.76 but 214.76 ion the stages s actually 198 because I am 54/46 at that lower power So it kind of works out But then I bring it into Aerolab and it tells me that I am not very aero because I am generating 215watts to go X mph (when in fact I am generating 198) So I go out and buy a set of firecrests to improve my Cda and I spent more than an accurate PM to start with I am kind of kidding, but bottom line is I am getting varying accuracy numbers depending on the power I am putting down. In my example the worst is in the 180-200watts which is where I spend most of my time If it was waaaaaay cheaper than a Power2max or PT, maybe, but why buy an innaccurate PM when accurate options exist. I have to work on my L/R it seems. I wonder how much is cleats, fit, position vs me

Very interesting.

Some people have made the argument that every power meter has it's advantages and disadvantages...but Stages is the only one that has a potential disadvantage that it will give you unreliable power data.  Sometimes you have to take a step back and ask yourself why you're getting a power meter in the first place.  Is it to actually use it to guide all your training...or do you simply want to use it to perform 20' tests.  I'm guessing if you only want to track your fitness for 20' tests, then your L/R power distribution should be fairly predictable for that effort.  But if you want to use power for anything from pacing an IM to 30" intervals, then accuracy and precision of your PM should be a must have before considering advantages of price, ease of swapping onto different bikes, etc.



Edited by Jason N 2013-12-14 6:44 PM
2013-12-15 5:26 AM
in reply to: TankBoy

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2013-12-15 5:29 AM
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Edited by Fred D 2013-12-15 5:35 AM
2013-12-15 7:25 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Not NE or mid Atlantic, but you guys can come do St. George 70.3 in May with me

2013-12-15 7:51 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by Fred D

OK! throwing out options for racing a HIM in May or June in prep for IMMT 140.6. I am considering Harryman, Eagleman or other races as options. Are there any SBRers who are interested in setting up an SBR HIM event where we try to meet up, have fun and then crush each other's souls? Hoping for some interest here. EDIT, I'm looking for suggestions of races in the NE or mid Atlantic that people would consider, and definitely more fun to do as a group!


I considered Quassy. I may do it, but it's a long shot for me

I think I want to do short course this summer and peak for worlds

2013-12-15 8:37 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Norton Shores, MI
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
95% sure I am doing the Grand Rapids half. Not because it's a qualifier for Sweden but because I can sleep in my own bed!
2013-12-15 8:41 AM
in reply to: rymac

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Interesting analysis on the Stages Marc. I am definitely glad I went with the Powertap from your & Fred's recommendation. I was considering the Stages at one point.


2013-12-15 8:45 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by Fred D OK! throwing out options for racing a HIM in May or June in prep for IMMT 140.6. I am considering Harryman, Eagleman or other races as options. Are there any SBRers who are interested in setting up an SBR HIM event where we try to meet up, have fun and then crush each other's souls? Hoping for some interest here. EDIT, I'm looking for suggestions of races in the NE or mid Atlantic that people would consider, and definitely more fun to do as a group!

I'm always up for a good soul crushing!  My options would be pretty limited though, I'm trying to keep the travel time down a bit next year if possible.

2013-12-15 8:48 AM
in reply to: axteraa

Elite
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

We've got another big dumping of snow headed our way.  I had to get out earlier than normal for my long run this morning to stay ahead of it.  The flurries started with about 15 mins left in the run and now (about an hour later), it's a full on snow storm.  Good thing I went out when I did!

Anyone signed up for the ST 100 runs in 100 days?  I signed up just to see where I end up - not going to alter my training in anyway for it but seeing as I am running 6-7 days/week already, I figured I may as well.

2013-12-15 9:15 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by axteraa

We've got another big dumping of snow headed our way.  I had to get out earlier than normal for my long run this morning to stay ahead of it.  The flurries started with about 15 mins left in the run and now (about an hour later), it's a full on snow storm.  Good thing I went out when I did!

Anyone signed up for the ST 100 runs in 100 days?  I signed up just to see where I end up - not going to alter my training in anyway for it but seeing as I am running 6-7 days/week already, I figured I may as well.




I am going to give the ST100/100 another crack although I am going in with some nagging injury so I think I will slow down a bit. Remember that achilles thing I told you about in the lobby in Miami ? Still there.

We got the snow. Over 20cm. The puppy is happy. He's a sled dog so loves this stuff.

I played with Spinscan on the computrainer this morning. I do it as part of the cool down

There are 3 measurements of interest. One i haven't figure out, but it's called the average torque angle

But the other two are SpinScan Score and L/R balance
Spinscan score is basically how well you distribute the power through the enitre cycle. If you hit 100 (impossible) you are applying power evenly throughout the cycle. If you are low, you are probably mashing.

The more evenly I get my spinscan score, the more the power distribution of my l/r goes wonky (56/44). So my right leg becomes very "efficient" in that it distributes the power properly, but the % of power goes down.
ST would say "just shut up and pedal". But it's kind of funky to see this stuff. Perfect entertainment for the cool down period.

ATA is the angle from TDC where you are applying most torque. You would think it's with the crank at about 3'oclock. I seem to be close to 4'oclock. Apparently this could be fit related, but found an old post from Rappstar where he is where I am. I suspect he is mimicking my technique.

So in my case, the L/R balance, hence inaccuracy of the Stages would be even worst if I change my pedalling technique and tried to apply evenly through the cycle.

I may try with some shorter cranks to see what happens. I suspect I will apply more power up to TDC, my ATA will come down and my Spinscan will go up. I love snowstorms they give you an excuse to do more interesting things than Christmas shopping.
2013-12-15 12:25 PM
in reply to: 0

Master
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by Fred D
Originally posted by TankBoy
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Fred DBONUS points question:

Does anyone know why US beer traditionally has had a much lower alcohol content than Canadian beer? (Even the same brand will often have a lower % in the USA, or at least it did)

So they can drink with Canadians and not pass out ?
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That literally made me spit my beer (Westmalle Tripel) out on my computer screen! Too, too funny!Fred - that is an old myth perpetuated by differences in labeling. Canada labels their alcohol content by volume (ABV), while in America we (traditionally) used alcohol by weight (ABW). If memory serves American bottlers began changing that in the mid 1990's, probably due to some side effect of NAFTA if I had to guess. In the mid 90s alcohol content was a lot more important to me than it is now, so the change did not go unnoticed....And besides, I thought you were a Martini guy?
. Rusty I think you are right that in the timing of NAFTA that things equalized a bit. I remember in the early 90s though that Canadians. Had ice beer and such that was 6.5% alcohol and that was more than double the typical American %. My understanding is that US beer for decades was affected by the prohibition days, where US bootleggers would cut their beer with water to allow them to sell more of it so to speak to customers in speakeasy's. That 'tradition' carried on for a long time here. It definitely is not in effect now, as the beers I most like are often 6-7%.

Not only that, but Prohibition mostly killed off all but the big 4 (Anheuser-Busch, Miller, Coors, and I forget the other one).  Then before microbrews could really start up again, WWII came along and there was rationing and supply difficulties.



Edited by spudone 2013-12-15 12:25 PM
2013-12-15 4:29 PM
in reply to: marcag

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Today's trainer fun. 1:35 with 30' at 260, 20 at 265 and 10 at 290


2013-12-16 6:14 AM
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Edited by Fred D 2013-12-16 6:15 AM
2013-12-16 6:43 AM
in reply to: Fred D

Master
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Fred, I rarely post in here but continue to read voraciously. I agree with both of your suggestions. Any one of the folks  in here (or a multiple thereof) would really help some of the raw talent learn, grow and improve. I believe you are a fan of the mentor groups and it has been my experience that they can run hot or cold, good or bad. It would be beneficial to see some groups being headed up by quality racers like yourselves. 

Marc, your PM group is a really cool offer. A focused opportunity for people to get more out of that type of equipment is really a chance for some folks to grow. And the fact that you have a couple of other resources on board is pretty cool. 

A big thanks to both of you for your kindness and willingness to give back.

2013-12-16 7:41 AM
in reply to: ChrisM

Master
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by ChrisM Today's trainer fun. 1:35 with 30' at 260, 20 at 265 and 10 at 290

Nice progression Chris!

2013-12-16 12:06 PM
in reply to: brigby1

Elite
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Ontario
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

You guys were busy this weekend - lots of good posts.  We got a fair amount of snow on Friday/Saturday and I ran on Sunday.  I fell less than 2km into the run and just below my knee is now sore and bruised.  Also struggling with ongoing issues with my left Soleus - think I probably pushed a bit too hard on the threshold test .  Massage later this week will hopefully help, and I'll avoid running for a couple days.

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