Passing with a "On your Left" Call (Page 3)
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bryancd - 2009-06-29 11:45 AM LOL! That's funny. Well, I for one am working hard but still think caution is required in a race when passing and somehow manage to generate enough air in my lungs to announce my impending pass. ![]() Re-reading what I wrote does appear funny but it's my norm. I ride 99% of the time in a strange environment (9,600-11,500' altitude). Even at a moderate effort I have to time the sips off the h2o bottle with deep breaths else I get instantly hypoxic. I'm not exaggerating. Just one mistimed sip and I get light-headed, tingly legs, etc that takes me 15-30 seconds from which to recover. In regards to it being a race, of course everyone should be aware of the rules but the reality is between tired people, new people, people who just tend to space out, that assumption just deosn't hold up in the real world. It shouldn't be necessary, but that's often not the case it seems. Agreed. My statement was meant to be theoretical but obviously didn't come off that way. Again, announcing a pass well in advance at a volume that's not excessive provides a comfortable margin of safety for both riders. Based on the responses here, it seems most of those being passed appreciate the warning. I'm sorry if you are too pooped to do it, though! LOL! I assume that you're usually in the pro/elite wave. I raced in that wave for many years and it's a totally different experience from the M4549 which often starts in the very last wave and usually very close to last. I was 23/1154 on the bike (even though I crashed badly separating my AC which cost me a couple minutes on the bike split.) So that means I probably passed about 750 people on the bike. I'm pretty sure that if I did announce all my passes, it would knock time off my bike split and it certainly would be a miserable experience for me. As I said above, I do whatever I think is safest. I've never hit anyone and desperately do not want anyone to crash. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Racing, it's situational like others have said. I'll give an "On Your Left" when it seems appropriate. When training, whether it's a road or MUP, I'm very specific. "RUNNER/CYCLIST BEHIND YOU PASSING ON YOUR LEFT". I find that this cuts down greatly on people veering into my path. |
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![]() | ![]() bryancd - 2009-06-29 2:10 PM I chant on your left like a monk! I suddenly have this image of Bryan hitting himself on the head with a board ala Monty Python... "dona eis on your left--FWAP!" Unless there's some serious cheering where you are on the bike, (in which case, how'd you enjoy Beijing?), you only have to be louder than your gears and their breathing to have them hear you say "on your left." But it all comes-down to what's safer? Not informing someone and you take both people out? Or saying something and maybe they veer into the ditch? |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() When I'm riding on the trail I always call out. If it's a family with kids I slow down and usually say something like, I'm passing you now. With kids you never know what they're going to do. I'd rather be going slower when they veer sideways for no apparent reason. Also, this happened just this weekend. Called out "on your left" as I was about to pass a GUY on the trail. He immediately sped up and I had to back off as riders were approaching from the opposite direction. I eventually did pass him, quietly. |
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![]() | ![]() I only announce myself, if the rider has drifted towards the center and I can't safely pass on the left without crossing the yellow line. Training I generally announce and will pause briefly and say good afternoon - small talk for 5-10 secs and be on my way... |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() breckview - 2009-06-29 1:22 PM I assume that you're usually in the pro/elite wave. I raced in that wave for many years and it's a totally different experience from the M4549 which often starts in the very last wave and usually very close to last. I was 23/1154 on the bike (even though I crashed badly separating my AC which cost me a couple minutes on the bike split.) So that means I probably passed about 750 people on the bike. I'm pretty sure that if I did announce all my passes, it would knock time off my bike split and it certainly would be a miserable experience for me. As I said above, I do whatever I think is safest. I've never hit anyone and desperately do not want anyone to crash. Oh, no, I'm all AG and being m40-44, often at the back of the wave start system. I usually am top 3 overall on the bike, so there be a lot of passing going on! ![]() |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() newleaf - 2009-06-29 11:56 AM breckview - 2009-06-29 1:33 PM KeriKadi - 2009-06-29 11:27 AM Not sure why the guys weren't saying anything but I found it somewhat rude. IMO, FOP bike riders are generally tired during the ride.And MOP/BOPers are not??? Just because one isn't at the front of the pack, doesn't mean they're not working. I really don't know what others are doing. I was just assuming. The post above from Bikergrrrl seemed to indicate that she thinks I'm not racing properly since she now patronizingly "knows what she's been doing wrong" or something like that so she's in essence indicated she hasn't been racing that hard on the bike leg. Where I train, YOU CAN'T BREATHE. In my last race (a sprint), I was trying to win the bike leg OA. I hadn't been able to push a hard bike effort in a race since returning to tris because my run has been so weak (due to my spinal fusion surgery and all). So I wanted to test how I could run in this race after a full-out bike effort. I could be wrong but I don't think MOP/BOPers were pushing that hard. I apologize if my statement was ridiculous but I currently have trouble breathing at a hard effort on the bike because of 1) altitude 2) mountains 3) hard effort in my last race. Strange reaction in this thread since if you asked this forum how to pace a sprint, you'd get the standard, "balls-to-the-wall" responses. When I'm pushing that hard, I can't breathe all that well. I must be weird. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() As a rider with poor balance who is a habital weaver despite my continued efforts, please announce yourself unless you want to risk a crash. I've been known to weave left suddenly going for my water bottle, race or not. If I know someone's there, I'll wait on the water. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bryancd - 2009-06-29 12:31 PM Oh, no, I'm all AG and being m40-44, often at the back of the wave start system. I usually am top 3 overall on the bike, so there be a lot of passing going on! ![]() And you're announcing all of those passes of course... |
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New user![]() ![]() | ![]() noelle1230 Then you're not ready to race and you shouldn't be putting us all at risk. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() brex - 2009-06-29 1:48 PM noelle1230 Then you're not ready to race and you shouldn't be putting us all at risk. Sorry but even world class athletes have accidents and mishaps. I've done about 15 races and never had a mishap, but that's because almost every pass has either been able to be accomplished far enough away from me on a wide uncrowded route, or the passer has CALLED OUT. There are many, many, many, many inexperienced runners, bikers and swimmers out there racing and there always will be. You will pass them. Believe me. That's exactly the point of why you should call out during a race. In fact, isn't there something in USAT rules about this? Anyone? |
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Not a Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() noelle1230 - 2009-06-29 2:40 PM I've been known to weave left suddenly going for my water bottle, race or not. If I know someone's there, I'll wait on the water. If you know you have that tendancy, then you have the responsibility to check if the coast is clear. The passer should give him/herself a 'margin of error' on either rider's part, of course. But being a novice doesn't mean you are free to weave through the course (or be unaware of the rules to ride to the right). |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bryancd - 2009-06-29 11:45 AM breckview - 2009-06-29 12:33 PM IMO, FOP bike riders are generally tired during the ride. Since I live in an O2-less environment even saying a single word can get my breathing completely out-of-whack here when I'm riding at a hard effort. While racing, fast riders are trying to win a timed race, not a polite contest. IMO, as a bike rider in a race we are all obligated to know enough about cycling to hold a straight line and to look before coming off that line. Therefore in a race, announcing passes shouldn't be necessary at all. LOL! That's funny. Well, I for one am working hard but still think caution is required in a race when passing and somehow manage to generate enough air in my lungs to announce my impending pass. ![]() Agree 100%! As far as hard efforts/time trials...I would never do that sort of riding on a multi-use trail! If there is a chance of me hitting a small child or elderly person I slow way down. Yea, it's inconvenient but I'd much rather lose my momentum then ever hit a person while I was on the bike. There was a time when I would pass on the left unannounced if I felt it was safe. that is until on a bike path when there was plenty of room to pass a lady on roller blades (I really wasn't very close) and I passed far to the left unannounced. I didn't hit her but after passing I heard a scream and a crash. I stopped and she was ok but several years later I still feel like a jerk for not announcing that I was passing on the left. eta "unannounced" Edited by rayd 2009-06-29 2:15 PM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Actually, I meant that mostly seriously. I honestly am not biking hard enough that I have to choose between breathe and talk. I'm an "ok" biker, better than most but in no way winning anything. I couldn't imagine finishing a tri if I went that hard on the bike, the run is hard as it is, but if that's what folks are doing maybe I should be considering this. The joke was more to do with the bell and an attempt at lightheartedness. I will admit that the last time I was at 5000+ feet I felt sick, so I can't really compare my experiences to yours. That would suck! breckview - 2009-06-29 1:39 PM The post above from Bikergrrrl seemed to indicate that she thinks I'm not racing properly since she now patronizingly "knows what she's been doing wrong" or something like that so she's in essence indicated she hasn't been racing that hard on the bike leg. Where I train, YOU CAN'T BREATHE. In my last race (a sprint.... |
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![]() JohnnyKay - 2009-06-29 11:59 AM noelle1230 - 2009-06-29 2:40 PM I've been known to weave left suddenly going for my water bottle, race or not. If I know someone's there, I'll wait on the water. If you know you have that tendancy, then you have the responsibility to check if the coast is clear. The passer should give him/herself a 'margin of error' on either rider's part, of course. But being a novice doesn't mean you are free to weave through the course (or be unaware of the rules to ride to the right). This is distressing to hear. Check out the Unbelieveable CdA video in the iron training forum to see what the results of doing that can be for a fellow racer. eta - here's the vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOfBv0ZaeFM Edited by ChrisM 2009-06-29 2:03 PM |
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Not a Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() noelle1230 - 2009-06-29 2:55 PM That's exactly the point of why you should call out during a race. In fact, isn't there something in USAT rules about this? Anyone? No. In fact, the rules are set up so that it should be entirely unnecssary to call out. That is, if everyone follows the rules, it should be safe for all. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JohnnyKay - 2009-06-29 1:59 PM noelle1230 - 2009-06-29 2:40 PM I've been known to weave left suddenly going for my water bottle, race or not. If I know someone's there, I'll wait on the water. If you know you have that tendancy, then you have the responsibility to check if the coast is clear. The passer should give him/herself a 'margin of error' on either rider's part, of course. But being a novice doesn't mean you are free to weave through the course (or be unaware of the rules to ride to the right). That's true and I generally always check but my point was that I'm sure I'm not the only racer out there with these tendacies, and not every weaver will check. So why take a risk? If you're training on a bike path shared with grandma, yelling "left" may startle her but I don't think you're going to startle a racer who's expecting passers. |
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Not a Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ChrisM - 2009-06-29 3:02 PM JohnnyKay - 2009-06-29 11:59 AM noelle1230 - 2009-06-29 2:40 PM I've been known to weave left suddenly going for my water bottle, race or not. If I know someone's there, I'll wait on the water. If you know you have that tendancy, then you have the responsibility to check if the coast is clear. The passer should give him/herself a 'margin of error' on either rider's part, of course. But being a novice doesn't mean you are free to weave through the course (or be unaware of the rules to ride to the right). This is distressing to hear. Check out the Unbelieveable CdA video in the iron training forum to see what the results of doing that can be for a fellow racer. eta - here's the vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOfBv0ZaeFM Can't watch it here, Chris. I don't know what happened or what the situation was but, like I said, the passer should be allowing for a 'margin of error' on either rider's part. There could still be cases where the margin ends up not being great enough for some reason or other and an accident occurs. If the passer takes a reckless chance, then he/she certainly bears some (or perhaps a majority) of the blame even if the other rider was out of 'proper' position. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() That's exactly the point of why you should call out during a race. In fact, isn't there something in USAT rules about this? Anyone? 99.99999999% sure that isn't a rule and hasn't ever BEEN a rule. As stated previously...calling out to every person you pass IN A RACE is NOT NECESSARY. It is often HELPFUL, but not necessary. Being a really good swimmer and crappy biker, I'd be pulling my hair out if EVERY person who passed me said "on your left". I'd go batty by the time the race was over. It's distracting. It makes me wonder what I did wrong that they felt the need to say "on your left". It makes me want to pass them back. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() brex - 2009-06-29 12:48 PM noelle1230 Then you're not ready to race and you shouldn't be putting us all at risk. Dude - I thought this was BeginnerTriathlete.com..... |
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Not a Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() noelle1230 - 2009-06-29 3:06 PM [...]but I don't think you're going to startle a racer who's expecting passers. You'd be wrong--seen it. I've also had people get upset with me for calling out 'on your left' or 'ride right' during a race. Can't say for sure why. Maybe they thought I was too loud. But if there's room for them to do so, I prefer that they move over before I get there so I don't have to hit the brakes. I will (and do) if I need to, but I shouldn't need to in most cases. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() MelH - 2009-06-29 2:10 PM brex - 2009-06-29 12:48 PM noelle1230 Then you're not ready to race and you shouldn't be putting us all at risk. Dude - I thought this was BeginnerTriathlete.com.....Right on! If you're racing, at some point you could be passing uncoordinated bikers. Yelling a quick "left" just seems like a pretty simple way to avoid a potential collision with someone who's unbalanced and/or not paying attention. In a perfect world, we all follow every rule and no one every does anything stupid but guess what....we're not! |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() noelle1230 - 2009-06-29 1:40 PM As a rider with poor balance who is a habital weaver despite my continued efforts, please announce yourself unless you want to risk a crash. I've been known to weave left suddenly going for my water bottle, race or not. If I know someone's there, I'll wait on the water. As said before depending on the situation I might or might not announce my pass; however for riders like you I rather get myself as far left as possible (and legal) and just pass you as fast as I can. If you are weavering all over the place then for sure you can expect for me to scream as hard as I can for you to move to the right as far as you can (where you should be all the time to begin with unless passing). Athletes should be responsible to have the adequate skills to participate in a race whether beginners or not; you don't have to have the handling skills of a pro tour rider but still some basic ones should be expected. IOW it is your responsibility to make sure you have the skills to face most challenges thrown at you during a race, otherwise you are placing yourself and others at risk... |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JohnnyKay - 2009-06-29 2:12 PM noelle1230 - 2009-06-29 3:06 PM [...]but I don't think you're going to startle a racer who's expecting passers. You'd be wrong--seen it. I've also had people get upset with me for calling out 'on your left' or 'ride right' during a race. Can't say for sure why. Maybe they thought I was too loud. But if there's room for them to do so, I prefer that they move over before I get there so I don't have to hit the brakes. I will (and do) if I need to, but I shouldn't need to in most cases. And would you rather have them upset, or not paying attention and bumping into you? Also, if you want someone to move don't you have to let them know you're there first? |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() And would you rather have them upset, or not paying attention and bumping into you? Also, if you want someone to move don't you have to let them know you're there first? If they are following the rules and riding to the right they shouldn't HAVE to move. Hence one of the times I WILL use "on your left" is when someone is NOT following the rules and they are riding too far left for me to safely pass or are "blocking". Then a nice "on your left" reminds them to get their sorry butts back to the right hand side of the road. But if everyone is following the rules then "on your left" is completely unnecessary. The place for people to pass is ON THE LEFT. That's why it's a RULE. So people KNOW where to expect people to pass. If you're going to weave to the left you had better CHECK first (just like changing lanes in a car) because there could be people there. |
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