General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Who swims over people? Rss Feed  
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2009-07-28 2:27 PM
in reply to: #2312593

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
WOW! That girl was HORRIBLE! Some people *shakes head*.



2009-07-28 2:35 PM
in reply to: #2313199

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Alpharetta, Georgia
Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
ChrisM - 2009-07-28 2:02 PM
KenyonTri - 2009-07-28 11:28 AM I do. Every race. It's a RACE. If there's a good opportunity to swim around someone I'll take it, but if not, GET OUT OF MY FREAKIN WAY. Or else I will get you out of my way. Or under my way.


questions
(1) Do you push people out of the way on the run if you can't immediately get around them (i.e., on a narrow path)?  If not, why not?  Isn't the water an infintely more dangerous place to practice such a philosophy? 
(2) Why should someone that started in a wave in front of you get out of your way?  And how are they to know you are behind them? 

Or maybe you just forgot the sarc font........


Good questions.
Awaiting the responses...
 
2009-07-28 2:44 PM
in reply to: #2312656

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New Haven, CT
Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
Never do it.  I go around people... why use tons of energy going over someone? Oh, and I am not a jerk. 

When people try and swim over me I beat them like a drum (ok, maybe I'm a jerk afterall).    
2009-07-28 3:03 PM
in reply to: #2312593

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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
Go around.  Like someone else mentioned would you knock over a runner or a biker in your path?  Why swim over someone on purpose.  I do think the  lead person should try to be aware of their surroundings and give way to a faster swimmer.
2009-07-28 4:31 PM
in reply to: #2312593

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?

Inadvertently, probably...I know I've had incidental contact with other swimmers.  In general, I try to avoid being so close that I risk getting my goggles kicked off or swept off because it takes a long time to get them back on.  If I'm swimming properly, my hand enters the water ahead of my shoulder/head and the arm extension pushes my hand out in front of me.  If I'm swimming properly, I might hit their feet or legs, but I shouldn't be striking their body with my hand without knowing they're there ahead of time (aside from the floater/treader who is stopped and vertical in the water).  If my hand comes slamming down on somebody, I'm doing something wrong.  I have had my arm get tangled up with another swimmer's arm.   Occasionally, I'll have to roll around a little to avoid "swimming over" someone. 

I do have a problem when someone tries to grab my ankle as I don't consider that "incidental" contact.  It's usually pretty obvious whether it's a brush or a grab. 

What am I thinking?  "I'm sorry"  but I know I don't have time to stop and apologize or I'll be in someone else's way.  (I also think "what other idiot is swimming this far outside the line??" 



Edited by McFuzz 2009-07-28 4:32 PM
2009-07-28 4:41 PM
in reply to: #2312861

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?

skarl - 2009-07-28 12:23 PM
crowny2 - 2009-07-28 10:07 AM

mrbbrad - 2009-07-28 11:02 AM Do you do it? Do you do it on purpose? What goes through your head? Walk me through that thought process please.

I've only done it once and it was purely accidental.

Quad Cities Triathlon last year.  Just turned the last buoy and was headed home.  I usually site every 6-8 strokes.  I was just starting to look up when I was literally on top of and face to face with a woman doing a very, VERY lazy back stroke.  Had no idea I was on top of her till I was because her feet were way down in the water (no attempt at a kick) and so there we were.  Happened in a split second.  As I was rolling off of her, I muttered an out of breath apology and kept going.

Otherwise, I don't try to swim over them, I just swim past them. 


Hope you both had wetsuits on

I think that in some countries we might now be legally married. 



2009-07-28 4:52 PM
in reply to: #2312593

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Science Nerd
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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
I've done it accidentally.  It was during the NYC tri right at the beginning where everyone is bunched up along the cable.  That is the craziest swim start I've ever done.  You go from vertical floating and hoping you don't get pushed outside the cable to swimming vertically.  There was a lot of swimming over people and getting swam over.  Tried to avoid it, but there wasn't a ton I could do.  I didn't go over the other woman entirely, just her legs.  I apologized, but I don't think she heard me.
2009-07-28 5:01 PM
in reply to: #2313636

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Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
I would never intentionally swim over anyone and it has never happened yet.

HOWEVER, I'm NOT afraid to bump shoulders, or fight for position side by side.  "rub some paint" as they call it in NASCAR.  But I usually save that for other guys who are up for it.  I may give a smaller female a bit more room.
2009-07-28 5:13 PM
in reply to: #2312593

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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
Bumping is one thing, swimming over is another.  If you try to swim over me, I'm grabbing you and will hurt you.

Why would it be ok to swim over someone?  Is it ok to trip or push someone over on a bike?  While running?  For some reason a few people think it's ok to do in water, where you can drown?
2009-07-28 5:28 PM
in reply to: #2312604

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
KSH - 2009-07-28 9:07 AM I do not. I think it's rude and uncalled for. If I, by accident, run into someone during an OWS, I try to move to the side of them. If I can't get around, I just wait or I go even further out to the side. I'm a solid swimmer and generally come out 1-3 in my AG out of the water... and I can tell you that even in murky Texas lakes, I know when I'm coming up on someone and I make the effort to go around them. I am never swimming so fast that I can't stop from swimming over someone.


X2...except for the "1-3 in my AG" part. 

I am generally at worst MOP, though, and depending on how the waves are set up in any given race, pretty much anyone in the MOP can end up catching the BOP swimmers in the preceding wave.  I've never seen any good reason to swim over someone.

I have wanted to in a pool swim, however...esp. the two girls swimming side by side doing breaststroke, blocking the whole lane...
2009-07-28 5:43 PM
in reply to: #2313636

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Master
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Lake Oswego, OR
Subject: RE: Who swims over people?

Artemis - 2009-07-28 2:52 PM  It was during the NYC tri right at the beginning where everyone is bunched up along the cable.  That is the craziest swim start I've ever done.  You go from vertical floating and hoping you don't get pushed outside the cable to swimming vertically.

I've heard that is hard to swim uphill, but vertically, that's nuts. There must have been a lot of DNFers



2009-07-28 5:47 PM
in reply to: #2313281

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Elite
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Roswell, GA
Subject: RE: Who swims over people?

lisac957 - 2009-07-28 3:35 PM
ChrisM - 2009-07-28 2:02 PM
KenyonTri - 2009-07-28 11:28 AM I do. Every race. It's a RACE. If there's a good opportunity to swim around someone I'll take it, but if not, GET OUT OF MY FREAKIN WAY. Or else I will get you out of my way. Or under my way.


questions
(1) Do you push people out of the way on the run if you can't immediately get around them (i.e., on a narrow path)?  If not, why not?  Isn't the water an infintely more dangerous place to practice such a philosophy? 
(2) Why should someone that started in a wave in front of you get out of your way?  And how are they to know you are behind them? 

Or maybe you just forgot the sarc font........


Good questions.
Awaiting the responses...
 

still waiting....

2009-07-28 5:57 PM
in reply to: #2313199

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Bob
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Binghamton, NY
Subject: RE: Who swims over people?

ChrisM - 2009-07-28 3:02 PM
KenyonTri - 2009-07-28 11:28 AM I do. Every race. It's a RACE. If there's a good opportunity to swim around someone I'll take it, but if not, GET OUT OF MY FREAKIN WAY. Or else I will get you out of my way. Or under my way.


questions
(1) Do you push people out of the way on the run if you can't immediately get around them (i.e., on a narrow path)?  If not, why not?  Isn't the water an infintely more dangerous place to practice such a philosophy? 
(2) Why should someone that started in a wave in front of you get out of your way?  And how are they to know you are behind them? 

Or maybe you just forgot the sarc font........

X2 -  KenyonTri, If you are serious about your post could you please stay away from races in the northeast?

2009-07-28 6:17 PM
in reply to: #2313685

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Master
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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?

JC5066 - 2009-07-28 3:13 PM Bumping is one thing, swimming over is another.  If you try to swim over me, I'm grabbing you and will hurt you.

Why would it be ok to swim over someone?  Is it ok to trip or push someone over on a bike?  While running?  For some reason a few people think it's ok to do in water, where you can drown?

Why would it be okay to grab someone and hurt them?  Maybe somebody might end up on top of you accidentally (leaky goggles and didn't see, got turned and came across you from an angle, etc.).  If someone crashed on the bike and took you down, would you start beating them?  I could understand a reaction if someone shoved you down in the water or threw a punch at your face.  Two wrongs don't make a right.

2009-07-28 6:20 PM
in reply to: #2313757

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Science Nerd
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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
E=H2O - 2009-07-28 6:43 PM

Artemis - 2009-07-28 2:52 PM  It was during the NYC tri right at the beginning where everyone is bunched up along the cable.  That is the craziest swim start I've ever done.  You go from vertical floating and hoping you don't get pushed outside the cable to swimming vertically horizontally.

I've heard that is hard to swim uphill, but vertically, that's nuts. There must have been a lot of DNFers



lol...that would be one interesting swim!  That second one should be horizontally.  Apparently I can type faster than I think. 
2009-07-28 6:51 PM
in reply to: #2313799

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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
SevenZulu - 2009-07-28 7:17 PM

JC5066 - 2009-07-28 3:13 PM Bumping is one thing, swimming over is another.  If you try to swim over me, I'm grabbing you and will hurt you.

Why would it be ok to swim over someone?  Is it ok to trip or push someone over on a bike?  While running?  For some reason a few people think it's ok to do in water, where you can drown?

Why would it be okay to grab someone and hurt them?  Maybe somebody might end up on top of you accidentally (leaky goggles and didn't see, got turned and came across you from an angle, etc.).  If someone crashed on the bike and took you down, would you start beating them?  I could understand a reaction if someone shoved you down in the water or threw a punch at your face.  Two wrongs don't make a right.



I don't care how fast you are, you're not fast enough to completely swim over me.  To do so would be do so on purpose and with no care to anyone else.  Maybe next time they'd think twice about doing it.

Some bumping and touching is one thing...


2009-07-28 6:59 PM
in reply to: #2313781

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
rstocks3 - 2009-07-28 5:57 PM

ChrisM - 2009-07-28 3:02 PM
KenyonTri - 2009-07-28 11:28 AM I do. Every race. It's a RACE. If there's a good opportunity to swim around someone I'll take it, but if not, GET OUT OF MY FREAKIN WAY. Or else I will get you out of my way. Or under my way.


questions
(1) Do you push people out of the way on the run if you can't immediately get around them (i.e., on a narrow path)?  If not, why not?  Isn't the water an infintely more dangerous place to practice such a philosophy? 
(2) Why should someone that started in a wave in front of you get out of your way?  And how are they to know you are behind them? 

Or maybe you just forgot the sarc font........

X2 -  KenyonTri, If you are serious about your post could you please stay away from races in the northeast?



He's not, he's just being silly.
2009-07-28 7:01 PM
in reply to: #2312621

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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
Donskiman - 2009-07-28 12:11 PM

Purposely swimming over a person would be like pushing a person off the road during the run.


I bet we'd get more viewers if we allowed that.  Similar to this commercial of if Billiards was more like hockey..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjHjT2uwfws

By swimming over someone do you mean as if you had a side view you'd see 1 swimmer directly on top of another swimmer?  Or where they basically crawl over someone?
2009-07-28 7:30 PM
in reply to: #2313867

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
ATLsbr - 2009-07-28 8:01 PM

By swimming over someone do you mean as if you had a side view you'd see 1 swimmer directly on top of another swimmer?  Or where they basically crawl over someone?


That's not the picture I've had.  I guess I had more in mind the way it has happened to me (twice, if I recall correctly).  It was more like partial overlap -- the left side of the other swimmer's body was sort of on top of the right side of my body.  Seems to me that a situation in which one swimmer is literally directly on top of another (as if the bottom swimmer were the top swimmer's shadow) would involve some dunking and pushing on the part of the top swimmer, which is definitely not cool, IMO.

I do think that the scenario I described ('partial overlap') can happen in a crowd without anybody really being seriously at fault.


Edited by Experior 2009-07-28 7:30 PM
2009-07-28 7:45 PM
in reply to: #2313921

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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
Experior - 2009-07-28 8:30 PM
ATLsbr - 2009-07-28 8:01 PM

By swimming over someone do you mean as if you had a side view you'd see 1 swimmer directly on top of another swimmer?  Or where they basically crawl over someone?


That's not the picture I've had.  I guess I had more in mind the way it has happened to me (twice, if I recall correctly).  It was more like partial overlap -- the left side of the other swimmer's body was sort of on top of the right side of my body.  Seems to me that a situation in which one swimmer is literally directly on top of another (as if the bottom swimmer were the top swimmer's shadow) would involve some dunking and pushing on the part of the top swimmer, which is definitely not cool, IMO.

I do think that the scenario I described ('partial overlap') can happen in a crowd without anybody really being seriously at fault.


Okay, that makes sense.  If someone literally tried to swim over me in a race it would take every bit of self restraint for me to not pound on them right there in the water.

That as described wouldn't really bother me much.  But I'm not 100% sure what it would look like until it happens to me.  Maybe someone can make a youtube video and say "Try not to do this when you swim".
2009-07-28 8:38 PM
in reply to: #2313850

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Master
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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?

JC5066 - 2009-07-28 4:51 PM
SevenZulu - 2009-07-28 7:17 PM

JC5066 - 2009-07-28 3:13 PM Bumping is one thing, swimming over is another.  If you try to swim over me, I'm grabbing you and will hurt you.

Why would it be ok to swim over someone?  Is it ok to trip or push someone over on a bike?  While running?  For some reason a few people think it's ok to do in water, where you can drown?

Why would it be okay to grab someone and hurt them?  Maybe somebody might end up on top of you accidentally (leaky goggles and didn't see, got turned and came across you from an angle, etc.).  If someone crashed on the bike and took you down, would you start beating them?  I could understand a reaction if someone shoved you down in the water or threw a punch at your face.  Two wrongs don't make a right.



I don't care how fast you are, you're not fast enough to completely swim over me.  To do so would be do so on purpose and with no care to anyone else.  Maybe next time they'd think twice about doing it.

Some bumping and touching is one thing...

Okay, your choice.  Personally, I choose to keep my focus on moving forward and getting to the finish line as quick as possible without taking time out of my race to thump another triathlete in order to teach him a lesson.  But to each his own.

So, what's the next topic -- What Kind of Gun for my Transition Bag?



2009-07-28 9:19 PM
in reply to: #2312593

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Expert
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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
If I'm ever in the position of actually going faster than someone else,  I go around them.

My sister had her first tri this past weekend.  It was a pool swim and unfortunately it was chaos.  Quite a few people underestimated their swim time so consequently there was a lot of back-ups.  Per protocal of pool swims... if you are tapped on the foot you should wait at the end of the lane and let the person behind you pass.  My sister got behind some guy doing the doggy paddle.,so she had to slow down. Taps him.  She attempted to pass at the end of the lane but he blocked her with his arm.  They continue on.  Then a guy behind her catches up to her and instead of tapping her he grabs her by the ankle and yanks her backwards so he can pass in the middle of the lane.  She's not sure how he passed the doggy paddle guy as she was so stunned she swallowed water, had to stand up and didn't see what happened.  Absolutely uncalled for actions by both swimmers, especially the yanker.  

Fortunately, it didn't turn her off of triathlons and she enjoyed her first race.  She signed up for another ( this time an OWS) in 3 weeks.
2009-07-29 2:08 AM
in reply to: #2312593

Veteran
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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
I've done it once or twice, but only in an IM start, where if there are no openings at all in your direction and you need to go the other direction but there are masses of people steadily going forward (or nearly not moving at all because there are so many bodies in the water) and there is no other way than trying to go underneath and then end up having to try and emerge with someone directly on top of you.

When there is any space at all to swim around though, I always swim around, and in races with waves I would never swim over anyone (unless it was accidental of course - I'm sure it has happened to people where they sight and it is clear and then someone comes up behind them quickly and they end up running into them.

I've head of people rolling over the backs of people so in that light having someone swim over your legs is not the worst thing that could happen!
2009-07-30 7:51 AM
in reply to: #2313199

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Master
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Subject: RE: Who swims over people?
ChrisM - 2009-07-28 2:02 PM

KenyonTri - 2009-07-28 11:28 AM I do. Every race. It's a RACE. If there's a good opportunity to swim around someone I'll take it, but if not, GET OUT OF MY FREAKIN WAY. Or else I will get you out of my way. Or under my way.


questions
(1) Do you push people out of the way on the run if you can't immediately get around them (i.e., on a narrow path)?  If not, why not?  Isn't the water an infintely more dangerous place to practice such a philosophy? 
(2) Why should someone that started in a wave in front of you get out of your way?  And how are they to know you are behind them? 

Or maybe you just forgot the sarc font........


Ha, yeah. My bad on the no red. Didn't even realize...
2009-07-30 10:55 AM
in reply to: #2312593

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Master
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Lake Norman, NC
Subject: RE: Who swims over people?

I've gotten into a lot of trouble for stating this before, but I still pretty much stand by this...  If you want to try swimming over me, you risk a broken nose from a swift kick or punch to the face.  I don't care about the disqualification or consequences.  I'm not putting my life at risk from someone willing to push me under water and climb over my back.

Now if you tap my feet or smack my leg, I'll more than likely move over a bit a let you pass.  If you brush up against me or even whack me pretty hard with a stroke as you go next to me, I won't mind that one bit.  Contact happens.  As in NASCAR, "rubbin' is racin'."

But the ankle grab followed by the back climb and push-down?  Good luck taking your chances with me with that.  You'll come out of the water bloodied in some way I can guarantee that.  So for those who answer, "yes - the slow swimmers are mere speed bumps to go over," think about what I wrote the next time you race.

As for me?  I'm not fast enough to catch and pass people and even if I were, I wouldn't swim over someone if you had a gun to my head.

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