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2015-02-17 7:58 AM
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by ligersandtions

Good 5x4' VO2 ride this morning.  Based on my most recent FTP testing, I accumulated 106 TSS points in 65 minutes.  Something tells me my FTP isn't nearly as low as what the testing said it was!  I think I just need to remember how to let/make myself really suffer




106 in 65 ? That's crazy. Is that a NP higher than your FTP ?
Something weird in there.
What % of FTP did you do on the 4' ?

Edited by marcag 2015-02-17 8:19 AM


2015-02-17 8:10 AM
in reply to: marcag

Master
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ligersandtions

Good 5x4' VO2 ride this morning.  Based on my most recent FTP testing, I accumulated 106 TSS points in 65 minutes.  Something tells me my FTP isn't nearly as low as what the testing said it was!  I think I just need to remember how to let/make myself really suffer

106 in 65 ? That's crazy. Is that a NP higher than your FTP ? Something weird in there.

Haha! Well that's good news. Probably just another example of where testing can be helpful, it's still a good idea to get some practice with it again to be sure the numbers are meaningful. Think it generally takes at least a few solid rides of some sort before things are firing more like they should be. That did seem like a really big drop in FTP, but I didn't have anything to say otherwise.

2015-02-17 9:00 AM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by ligersandtions

Good 5x4' VO2 ride this morning.  Based on my most recent FTP testing, I accumulated 106 TSS points in 65 minutes.  Something tells me my FTP isn't nearly as low as what the testing said it was!  I think I just need to remember how to let/make myself really suffer

Yup, time to retest!  LOL

I generally consider 85-90 TSS in an hour to be when I feel like I'm approaching death and if I actually get 90 (in a typical workout with a 20 min warmup), it's probably time for an adjustment.

2015-02-17 9:04 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

So, we are in California now, flew from home to Montreal on Saturday then Montreal to LA on Sunday.  Good thing I booked it like that because on Sunday home was hit with a massive snowstorm.  Remember that 27 inches I mentioned that buried us a couple of weeks ago?  Well they got another 34 inches piled on top of that!  Most snow ever recorded in a single storm for the province.  

And I thought last winter was bad.

2015-02-17 9:59 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by axteraa

So, we are in California now, flew from home to Montreal on Saturday then Montreal to LA on Sunday.  Good thing I booked it like that because on Sunday home was hit with a massive snowstorm.  Remember that 27 inches I mentioned that buried us a couple of weeks ago?  Well they got another 34 inches piled on top of that!  Most snow ever recorded in a single storm for the province.  

And I thought last winter was bad.

Just wait till you get home and have to shovel...

2015-02-17 12:15 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ligersandtions

Good 5x4' VO2 ride this morning.  Based on my most recent FTP testing, I accumulated 106 TSS points in 65 minutes.  Something tells me my FTP isn't nearly as low as what the testing said it was!  I think I just need to remember how to let/make myself really suffer

106 in 65 ? That's crazy. Is that a NP higher than your FTP ? Something weird in there.

Haha! Well that's good news. Probably just another example of where testing can be helpful, it's still a good idea to get some practice with it again to be sure the numbers are meaningful. Think it generally takes at least a few solid rides of some sort before things are firing more like they should be. That did seem like a really big drop in FTP, but I didn't have anything to say otherwise.

Yeah, my FTP is definitely not right!  I think that with a few weeks of structured training, I'll remember again how to pace (and hurt) properly for 5' and 20', which should give me a better estimation of my FTP.  I'm planning to re-test the week of March 9th.

NP was almost exactly equivalent to my "FTP".  I suspect my real FTP is probably about 20W higher....if I used that, my TSS would have been around 82, which seems more realistic given how I felt at the end.

The last of my 4' intervals was within a few watts of my 5' test last week!  So yeah, the only confidence I have in last week's testing is that they were not good numbers!  Between now and the next time I test, I'm going to be basing my training on a 10-20W higher FTP, and then will confirm/update with the next round of testing.

I just thought the 106 TSS in 65' was humorous and figured you guys would too



2015-02-17 6:37 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ligersandtions

Good 5x4' VO2 ride this morning.  Based on my most recent FTP testing, I accumulated 106 TSS points in 65 minutes.  Something tells me my FTP isn't nearly as low as what the testing said it was!  I think I just need to remember how to let/make myself really suffer

106 in 65 ? That's crazy. Is that a NP higher than your FTP ? Something weird in there.

Haha! Well that's good news. Probably just another example of where testing can be helpful, it's still a good idea to get some practice with it again to be sure the numbers are meaningful. Think it generally takes at least a few solid rides of some sort before things are firing more like they should be. That did seem like a really big drop in FTP, but I didn't have anything to say otherwise.

Yeah, my FTP is definitely not right!  I think that with a few weeks of structured training, I'll remember again how to pace (and hurt) properly for 5' and 20', which should give me a better estimation of my FTP.  I'm planning to re-test the week of March 9th.

NP was almost exactly equivalent to my "FTP".  I suspect my real FTP is probably about 20W higher....if I used that, my TSS would have been around 82, which seems more realistic given how I felt at the end.

The last of my 4' intervals was within a few watts of my 5' test last week!  So yeah, the only confidence I have in last week's testing is that they were not good numbers!  Between now and the next time I test, I'm going to be basing my training on a 10-20W higher FTP, and then will confirm/update with the next round of testing.

I just thought the 106 TSS in 65' was humorous and figured you guys would too

Nicole - nice work! While you got a good natured chorus of "looks like it is time to retest!" from the group, I would say that this is really an example of why I hardly test ever at all. with structured training, precision data recording, and the advanced analysis tools we all have it seems like it is easy enough to to figure out your training parameters from inference alone. There are lots better workouts from a physiological development perspective than a 20 minute test, and I would rather do one of those, frankly. (I did do a 20 minute test this weekend, though). 

I do need to learn to suffer on the trainer - on the road I can do it like nobody's business, but on the trainer, well, I just don't think I ride the trainer enough. This morning I had a 2x tap-out interval set, and on the first go-round I tapped out one interval too early. My brain knew I would tap out on the next interval, so I just quit on the interval I was on as I knew I would not be able to complete the next one. On the second time around I juuuust managed to make it through the interval that I had tapped-out on previously, which of course doesn't make any sense. But again I knew I would not be able to even start the next one, so I could just go for broke. I need more of the latter thinking and less of the former. Or maybe suffering on the trainer requires that you don't think all. Heh.

2015-02-17 6:58 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

So this is kinda funny. I have been working with our university Triathlon team for a bunch of years, and just last year fell n to a similar roll with our Cycling Team (which is cool, as I raced with the team 30 years ago when I was an undergrad). They all have groupme groups of course, and on the cycling discussion they all started jibber-jabbing about wheel and tire selection for their first race of the season which is coming up next week. While the tire discussion demands it own thread, sparked by the "what wheels for the time trail" debate I offered up my 808/1080s pair to anyone that wanted them. One of the kids responded that I "got him excited for a sec." when I asked what he was excited about he said he was "hoping it was a 303/404 set." So I replied, "Ah, you just want to pimp your ride, not go fast. Got it. In that case I have a set of original un-exploded Spinergy Rev-Xs that will look good on your fixie."

Can you believe I got 7 (SEVEN!) PM's about the Spinegy's, and not one RFI about the 808/1080's. So I am giving them to one of the kids. He is beside himself - you would think I was giving him a lump of gold. The funniest thing is that when I pulled them out of my wheel rack and dusted of the cobwebs, they were fitted with the last tire I raced on them, probably 20+ years ago: Conti Ultra 2000 20mm. Good Lord, those things must have ridden like bricks. I have no idea how I was as fast on them as I was. I just scheduled a visit to the chiro just thinking about it...

2015-02-17 7:21 PM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by TankBoy

So this is kinda funny. I have been working with our university Triathlon team for a bunch of years, and just last year fell n to a similar roll with our Cycling Team (which is cool, as I raced with the team 30 years ago when I was an undergrad). They all have groupme groups of course, and on the cycling discussion they all started jibber-jabbing about wheel and tire selection for their first race of the season which is coming up next week. While the tire discussion demands it own thread, sparked by the "what wheels for the time trail" debate I offered up my 808/1080s pair to anyone that wanted them. One of the kids responded that I "got him excited for a sec." when I asked what he was excited about he said he was "hoping it was a 303/404 set." So I replied, "Ah, you just want to pimp your ride, not go fast. Got it. In that case I have a set of original un-exploded Spinergy Rev-Xs that will look good on your fixie."

Can you believe I got 7 (SEVEN!) PM's about the Spinegy's, and not one RFI about the 808/1080's. So I am giving them to one of the kids. He is beside himself - you would think I was giving him a lump of gold. The funniest thing is that when I pulled them out of my wheel rack and dusted of the cobwebs, they were fitted with the last tire I raced on them, probably 20+ years ago: Conti Ultra 2000 20mm. Good Lord, those things must have ridden like bricks. I have no idea how I was as fast on them as I was. I just scheduled a visit to the chiro just thinking about it...

You undersold the story with the first line!  LOL

Matt

2015-02-17 7:41 PM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by TankBoy

So this is kinda funny. I have been working with our university Triathlon team for a bunch of years, and just last year fell n to a similar roll with our Cycling Team (which is cool, as I raced with the team 30 years ago when I was an undergrad). They all have groupme groups of course, and on the cycling discussion they all started jibber-jabbing about wheel and tire selection for their first race of the season which is coming up next week. While the tire discussion demands it own thread, sparked by the "what wheels for the time trail" debate I offered up my 808/1080s pair to anyone that wanted them. One of the kids responded that I "got him excited for a sec." when I asked what he was excited about he said he was "hoping it was a 303/404 set." So I replied, "Ah, you just want to pimp your ride, not go fast. Got it. In that case I have a set of original un-exploded Spinergy Rev-Xs that will look good on your fixie."

Can you believe I got 7 (SEVEN!) PM's about the Spinegy's, and not one RFI about the 808/1080's. So I am giving them to one of the kids. He is beside himself - you would think I was giving him a lump of gold. The funniest thing is that when I pulled them out of my wheel rack and dusted of the cobwebs, they were fitted with the last tire I raced on them, probably 20+ years ago: Conti Ultra 2000 20mm. Good Lord, those things must have ridden like bricks. I have no idea how I was as fast on them as I was. I just scheduled a visit to the chiro just thinking about it...

We need you to do an experiment and offer up your Felt IA with the ENVE 8.9's on them...vs your Spinergy's.  Just to see what the response is.

2015-02-17 8:39 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Anyone in the group have experience swimming with a tempo trainer?  Saw a swim coach for a couple of sessions and one of the takeaways was to work on speeding up the stroke a bit.  I know AdventureBear is a huge proponent of it, just wondering about the groups thoughts.



2015-02-17 9:46 PM
in reply to: #5079829

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Elite
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
I've never used one Neil but I think the concept has a lot of merit. I suspect it needs a bit of direction from someone with experience to make the most of it. I'd be curious of what you thought of it if you tried it.
2015-02-18 9:08 AM
in reply to: GoFaster

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by GoFaster

Anyone in the group have experience swimming with a tempo trainer?  Saw a swim coach for a couple of sessions and one of the takeaways was to work on speeding up the stroke a bit.  I know AdventureBear is a huge proponent of it, just wondering about the groups thoughts.

I've used one, though never consistently.

It's annoying as heck but does NOT let me slack off! The coach set it to the cadence of top ITU swimmers... ~300 yards was TOUGH!

If/when I swim again regularly, I'd love to use one for certain sets. It sort of keeps me out of cruise mode, especially on longer intervals.

2015-02-18 5:16 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Cross posting this from ST:

I have found myself in the need of a new helmet due to an unfortunate moving accident in which I crushed my LG Vortice.
The default position would be to just upgrade to the LG P-09 and call it a day, but I have the opportunity to get a bambino for cheap.
The bambino in medium fits like a glove; the Vortice in medium was comfortable and fit well, but seemed kind of roomy side-to-side as I have a rather narrow head.
The small Vortice was too tough to get on. I have not had the chance to try on the P-09, and was just going to order it, but go with the small as it seems designed much easier to get on and of than the Vortice: is that true, or should I stick with the medium if I go that route?

I need to pull the trigger quickly, but any advice is appreciated: P-09 or Bambino?

2015-02-18 5:22 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Just got the below PR (press release, not the good kind of PR).  I know these guys, but can't vouch for this science... caveat emptor (they are selling something, after all).  Even though my PhD was in neuro, I've never heard of this particular mechanism (but that doesn't mean much this far out from being an active bench scientist). 

Thought it was interesting in the SBR context, given how little we actually know about cramps and their cause, at any rate.

And just how many times do you think they can mention "Nobel laureate" in one PR? 

 

 

AAN Selects Flex Pharma Data for Oral Platform Presentation

Company to Present Human Proof-of-Concept for Treating and Preventing Muscle Cramps 

Click to Tweet this News

 

February 18, 2015

 

Boston, MA – Flex Pharma, Inc. (NASDAQ: FLKS), a biotechnology company that is developing innovative and proprietary treatments for nocturnal leg cramps and spasms associated with severe neuromuscular conditions, today announced that the Company’s data have been selected for an oral platform presentation at the American Academy of Neurology (AAN) 67th Annual Meeting being held in Washington, D.C. The abstract, titled “Orally-administered TRPV1 and TRPA1 activators inhibit electrically-induced muscle cramps in normal healthy volunteers,will be presented on Tuesday, April 21, 2015, from 3:45 to 4:00 p.m.

“These results support our belief that this treatment has significant potential as a solution for people suffering from sports-related muscle cramping, nocturnal leg cramps, as well as muscle cramping and spasms resulting from of a broad range of neuromuscular disorders, such as multiple sclerosis, spinal spasticity and cervical dystonia,” said Co-Author Rod MacKinnon, M.D., Nobel Laureate and Co-Founder of Flex Pharma. “Muscle cramps can impact many types of individuals - even the fittest of athletes - at critical times.”

Flex Pharma’s proprietary treatment is based on research showing that cramps are caused by excessive firing of alpha-motor neurons in the spinal cord that control muscle contraction. The treatment is designed to stop the firing of the neurons by topically stimulating the transient receptor potential (TRP) ion channels located in the gastrointestinal tract. Physical properties of the TRP activators largely limit their action to sensory neurons in the mouth, esophagus and stomach, with minimal concentrations?reaching the bloodstream and, consequently, fewer potential systemic side effects.

The studies evaluating this treatment consisted of three randomized, blinded, placebo-controlled crossover designs in a total of 37 healthy volunteers. The primary endpoint of each study was to evaluate the efficacy of the treatment in preventing muscle cramps. Each of the studies showed statistically significant results, demonstrating that Flex Pharma’s treatment reduced electrically induced muscle cramps within 15 minutes, and its effect lasted between six and eight hours compared to subjects taking a vehicle control. When data from the three studies were aggregated, the treatment showed a statistically significant overall treatment effect, reducing cramp intensity by three-fold compared to subjects taking a vehicle control (ANOVA, p<0.0001).

"Nocturnal leg cramps can cause distress, interrupted sleep, reduced quality of life and interference with activities of daily living,” said Dr. MacKinnon. “We estimate that approximately four million U.S. adults over the age of 65 suffer daily from nocturnal leg cramps, a condition for which there is significant need since there are no approved treatments. In the second quarter of 2015, Flex Pharma intends to initiate a human proof-of-concept study of its proprietary treatment for individuals with nocturnal leg cramps.”

About Flex Pharma

Flex Pharma, Inc. is a biotechnology company that is developing innovative and proprietary treatments for nocturnal leg cramps and spasms associated with severe neuromuscular conditions. In three randomized, blinded, placebo-controlled, cross-over studies, Flex Pharma's proprietary treatment has shown a statistically significant reduction in the intensity of muscle cramps in healthy normal volunteers.

Flex Pharma was founded by National Academy of Science members Rod MacKinnon, M.D. (2003 Nobel Laureate), and Bruce Bean, Ph.D., recognized leaders in the fields of ion channels and neurobiology, along with Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Christoph Westphal, M.D., Ph.D. 

X

2015-02-18 6:31 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Well it's a good thing I don't suffer from electrically induced leg cramps...because then I'd have to buy this stuff.  

In all seriousness though, are there any other drugs on the market that inhibit neurons from firing from your spinal cord?  For all I know (which isn't much), Tylenol could be doing the something similar but it just seems kind of scary to be messing with that just to avoid leg cramps.

 



2015-02-18 7:10 PM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by TankBoy
I need to pull the trigger quickly, but any advice is appreciated: P-09 or Bambino?


I never tried the LG, but the bambino tested identically as the Giro A2 for me, ie no justification for the higher price (for me)
2015-02-18 7:49 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Just got the below PR (press release, not the good kind of PR).  I know these guys, but can't vouch for this science... caveat emptor (they are selling something, after all).  Even though my PhD was in neuro, I've never heard of this particular mechanism (but that doesn't mean much this far out from being an active bench scientist). 

Thought it was interesting in the SBR context, given how little we actually know about cramps and their cause, at any rate.

And just how many times do you think they can mention "Nobel laureate" in one PR? 

Ha, per the bolded...only a few times less than on their website. I haven't been following them, but they managed to pull off a pretty successful IPO for what is essentially a dietary supplement. That said, I don't understand the mechanism so maybe they've got something viable this time.

2015-02-19 9:27 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by TankBoy I need to pull the trigger quickly, but any advice is appreciated: P-09 or Bambino?
I never tried the LG, but the bambino tested identically as the Giro A2 for me, ie no justification for the higher price (for me)

The small P-09 runs VERY SMALL. I had to shave off two little parts of foam to get it to sit right.

It is easy to get on/off - the section over the ears will pull out so it slips on easier. 

If you know the Bambino fits well... that might be your best bet. 

2015-02-19 10:21 AM
in reply to: 0

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Elite
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by GoFaster

Originally posted by axteraa

So, we are in California now, flew from home to Montreal on Saturday then Montreal to LA on Sunday.  Good thing I booked it like that because on Sunday home was hit with a massive snowstorm.  Remember that 27 inches I mentioned that buried us a couple of weeks ago?  Well they got another 34 inches piled on top of that!  Most snow ever recorded in a single storm for the province.  

And I thought last winter was bad.

Just wait till you get home and have to shovel...

Arend - this guy was on the CBC news last night, after he had to dig a tunnel to find his car in PEI.  The grey portion in the bottom right is part of his car, and he's fully standing in the tunnel.  Hope you're in California till June!

 



Edited by GoFaster 2015-02-19 10:22 AM




(Tunnel.JPG)



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2015-02-19 10:24 AM
in reply to: GoFaster

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Yup, it's unbelievable by the sounds of things. Here are a few more pics.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/snow-what-snow?bffb&utm_term=4ldqpgu#.bhwkbl5dr

They are calling for another dump of snow on Sunday - we get home (in theory) Monday morning.



2015-02-19 11:12 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
SOOOOO glad I live in Oregon/Saigon! (Both have been having unusually mild winters--in Saigon's case, that means cool/dry.) I grew up in the Midwest, though, and do remember digging out cars and making the exit tunnel during the "Blizzard of 77". Have also tunneled out of my relatives' house in northern Michigan a few times. Dad and I were watching the news last night and reminiscing about our 20-mile run around two indoor basketball courts during a similar blizzard. Hope those of you affected by the storms are keeping safe and warm!
2015-02-19 11:30 AM
in reply to: axteraa

Master
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by axteraa

Yup, it's unbelievable by the sounds of things. Here are a few more pics.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/snow-what-snow?bffb&utm_term=4ldqpgu#.bhwkbl5dr

They are calling for another dump of snow on Sunday - we get home (in theory) Monday morning.

Will they just equip the planes with skis now?

Supposed one good thing is that since people are tunneling now the upper limit of what needs to be shoveled has been reached.

2015-02-19 6:32 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Sigh...more power issues.

Numbers seemed low (about 15 watts) the past two rides with focused intervals.  Offset numbers dropping again...not too much within any one ride, but just overall over time.

Called Quarq and they said I could send the unit in, but to try to retorque the bolts again.  They actually recommended 12 nm, and I was only going to 10.  I also ordered some new chainring bolts as it is possible that they are coming loose on their own.  They said that locktite wasn't necessary though.

This morning I rode in with my older PT wheel and was 6 watts lower overall on my Quarq, and at least 10 watts lower (possibly as much as 17 watts) for a short 2 minute effort around FTP.  I'm having trouble downloading the PT file from my 910 here at work, so won't have more details on the differences till tomorrow.

24 days left on my warranty...I think I'm doing my fair share to make this right, but I can't help but feel a bit guilty calling Quarq customer service less than a month from my warranty end.  It's not like it's reading 50% low, and the guy on the phone said that they would test the unit, and it's possible it could pass and I'm just out on shipping charges.

 

2015-02-20 8:10 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Jason, don't feel bad.  You're not gaming the system - you have the warrantee for as long as you have it.  That's the deal and a very fair one.

My guess is that they just want to make it right and the warranty (just noticed I spelled that differently both times - going to have to go to the dictionary, as I love words... anyway) actually doesn't much matter.  IME, good companies stand behind their products even after it's run out, within reason.  They more want happy customers, and you'd qualify as a super-user.

Hey, could someone explain offset to me briefly?  Sorry if this has been covered in the PM posts (searched BT but got non-contributory threads).  I checked mine last week before a ride as you all talk of it frequently (-730), but I have no idea what it means...

Thanks from this remedial power user (obviously not "power-user").  

Matt

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