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Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. (Page 41)
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 2014-02-03 3:19 PM in reply to: marcag |
 Oakville |  Subject: RE: Week 5Originally posted by marcag Shane mentioned doing the VO2max intervals ay levels greater than the 106% I did VO2max-1 starting at 107% and increasing 1% per interval to finish at my 5' power level. Hard but not a killer. I'll try upping it a bit more with VO2-2 I was going to ask about this. I was feeling pretty lousy last week and so I did both VO2 workouts exactly as written with the VO2 segments at or very near 105% of FTP. Feeling better this week, so I was going to push the 6 x 2:30 segments of VO2-1 a bit harder. 1% increase per segment would have me ending at 110% or 253 watts (which is higher than my 5 minute power). I'll give it a try and report back if I was able to hold it for the last few segments. |
| 2014-02-03 3:46 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: Week 5 A question for the group on estimating power using data from a prior race/ride. Dale created a survey in Triathlon Talk asking what % of FTP you raced an Olympic and how did your run go. Although I haven't raced an Olympic yet, I did a few modified Sprints last season with a 30 km bike and 7.5 km run. Both runs felt great and my times were roughly 2:00 to 2:10 slower than what my estimated open 7.5 km run would be. Based on HR and RPE, it felt like I was riding very close to FTP. I'm trying to figure out how to estimate what my average power was for the rides using 'Bikecalculator.com' but the wind variable can dramatically change the estimates. Both races were out and back routes and, from what I can recall, both days were fairly calm. Would the headwind and tailwind net out at 0 km/hr?
Edited by Scott71 2014-02-03 3:48 PM |
| 2014-02-03 4:25 PM in reply to: Scott71 |
Extreme Veteran  5722   | Subject: RE: Week 5 Originally posted by Scott71 A question for the group on estimating power using data from a prior race/ride. Dale created a survey in Triathlon Talk asking what % of FTP you raced an Olympic and how did your run go. Although I haven't raced an Olympic yet, I did a few modified Sprints last season with a 30 km bike and 7.5 km run. Both runs felt great and my times were roughly 2:00 to 2:10 slower than what my estimated open 7.5 km run would be. Based on HR and RPE, it felt like I was riding very close to FTP. I'm trying to figure out how to estimate what my average power was for the rides using 'Bikecalculator.com' but the wind variable can dramatically change the estimates. Both races were out and back routes and, from what I can recall, both days were fairly calm. Would the headwind and tailwind net out at 0 km/hr?
Your best estimate will be with bestbikesplit.com If you have a Garmin of the file you can upload it, and play with various power to match what you did You can even set a wind speed and direction. The race may already be in their database. |
| 2014-02-03 7:41 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 945 South Windsor, CT | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training so...I'm now reading Hunter Allen and Stephen Cheung's book 'Cutting Edge Cycling'. Extremely well written and lots of data driven comments. I really, really love it. Last night in the 'periodization' chapter, they discuss high intensity training and quote a study by Gibala in 2006 stating that 4 sessions of 4-7x 30 sec max sprints spread out over 14 days, was a strong stimulant to aerobic performance, with a 100% increase in time to exhaustion at 80%vo2 peak power. This seems like the Billat 30/30 running workout I talked about earlier, but may have a bigger endurance benefit than true v02max improvement-especiallyy as there was apparently no change in v02max in these subjects. Also, a big limiter of the study was that the control group did no exercise rather than compare to low intensity. (You'd think people could design these studies a bit better...) Are there other studies regarding high intensity on the bike and aerobic benefit?? |
| 2014-02-03 8:07 PM in reply to: GoFaster |
Elite 3779  Ontario | Subject: RE: Week 5 Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by GoFaster Can you post your file ? What % was your recovery and for how long ? Originally posted by marcag Shane mentioned doing the VO2max intervals ay levels greater than the 106% I did VO2max-1 starting at 107% and increasing 1% per interval to finish at my 5' power level. Hard but not a killer. I'll try upping it a bit more with VO2-2 Correct me if I'm wrong Marc, but this will work much better for those not classed as Sprinters. There is a 60 watt difference between my CP and 5min power result. So if I start at 107% I would actually need to finish at 125% to reach my 5min power. My coach had me do a slightly different workout this morning and I blew up on the last interval. 5x3min @ 107%, 109%, 111%, 115%, 119%. I lasted 1min in the last interval and then begged for my legs to keep going for the last 2min as I watched my power drop away... I'll post the file this evening from home. It was 3min recovery at roughly 65%. Here we go. And for everyone who keeps pushing their workouts, this is what it looks like when you fail. (Fail.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Fail.JPG (68KB - 3 downloads) Feb 3_14.tcx (2322KB - 3 downloads) |
| 2014-02-03 10:13 PM in reply to: marcag |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: Week 5 Your best estimate will be with bestbikesplit.com If you have a Garmin of the file you can upload it, and play with various power to match what you did You can even set a wind speed and direction. The race may already be in their database. Very cool website. Much appreciated. |
| 2014-02-03 10:25 PM in reply to: marcag |
Member 117 Boulder, Colorado | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. So tonight I was all ready to do my last week 4 workout (sweet spot), and then I discovered I was out of clean shorts. So instead, I am doing laundry. Will finish and post tomorrow. |
| 2014-02-04 3:49 AM in reply to: dtoce |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by dtoce so...I'm now reading Hunter Allen and Stephen Cheung's book 'Cutting Edge Cycling'. Extremely well written and lots of data driven comments. I really, really love it. Last night in the 'periodization' chapter, they discuss high intensity training and quote a study by Gibala in 2006 stating that 4 sessions of 4-7x 30 sec max sprints spread out over 14 days, was a strong stimulant to aerobic performance, with a 100% increase in time to exhaustion at 80%vo2 peak power. This seems like the Billat 30/30 running workout I talked about earlier, but may have a bigger endurance benefit than true v02max improvement-especiallyy as there was apparently no change in v02max in these subjects. Also, a big limiter of the study was that the control group did no exercise rather than compare to low intensity. (You'd think people could design these studies a bit better...) Are there other studies regarding high intensity on the bike and aerobic benefit?? http://www.sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm |
| 2014-02-04 4:55 AM in reply to: GoFaster |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 5 Originally posted by GoFaster Here we go. And for everyone who keeps pushing their workouts, this is what it looks like when you fail. Some observations For one, you have 10minutes 5x(1 on+1off) work immediately before the 5x3' intervals. It seems to be above threshold intervals, so you are not coming into this 5x3 100% fresh. You do 37.5 minutes of riding at a NP of 95% of your FTP (IF=.95). Not easy. I don't think you are slacking off, your HR is pretty pegged, You previously described 179 as "near death experience" I am not sure when you started riding hard again from your illness. Seems like an aggressive workout early in the cycle. Remember, the group has been doing these for a few weeks. As well Shane gave 5' of recovery before starting the VO2 intervals. His pre-VO2 intervals are very short, just to warm up. Pretty different workout. |
| 2014-02-04 6:48 AM in reply to: dtoce |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by dtoce so...I'm now reading Hunter Allen and Stephen Cheung's book 'Cutting Edge Cycling'. Extremely well written and lots of data driven comments. I really, really love it. Last night in the 'periodization' chapter, they discuss high intensity training and quote a study by Gibala in 2006 stating that 4 sessions of 4-7x 30 sec max sprints spread out over 14 days, was a strong stimulant to aerobic performance, with a 100% increase in time to exhaustion at 80%vo2 peak power. This seems like the Billat 30/30 running workout I talked about earlier, but may have a bigger endurance benefit than true v02max improvement-especiallyy as there was apparently no change in v02max in these subjects. Also, a big limiter of the study was that the control group did no exercise rather than compare to low intensity. (You'd think people could design these studies a bit better...) Are there other studies regarding high intensity on the bike and aerobic benefit?? I haven't read this book yet; what is the protocol for the 30s max sprints (specifically the rest)? Shane |
| 2014-02-04 6:50 AM in reply to: 0 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Week 5 / Threshold 1 is done. With the late ride on Sunday and the run on Monday my legs wanted no part of cycling this morning. Hit all the intervals and ended up with TSS of 90. Edited by trisuppo 2014-02-04 6:51 AM (2-4-14 Ride Graph.png) (2-4-14 Ride Graph2.png) Attachments ---------------- 2-4-14 Ride Graph.png (119KB - 5 downloads) 2-4-14 Ride Graph2.png (81KB - 6 downloads) |
| 2014-02-04 6:52 AM in reply to: marcag |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Week 5 Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by RunningJoke Just have VO2 max left for tomorrow. As an "all-rounder" I have the option of doing Sweet Spot or Threshold 2. I've noticed that I hate Threshold 1. I find it much harder than Sweet Spot, even though it's shorter. If I've learned anything from triathlons it's that the thing you like the least is probably what you should be working on. Should I take this as a sign that I should be doing both the Threshold workouts instead? I suspect you will get similar benefit from both. Maybe more mental confidence if you nail the ones you find tougher. Generally, I would suggest going with the workout you find more challenging if you have a choice. The benefits should be pretty similar for both so you could also look at alternating week to week so that you aren't always facing a workout that you hate but still push yourself by getting it done on a regular basis. Shane |
| 2014-02-04 6:56 AM in reply to: GoFaster |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Week 5 Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by marcag Shane mentioned doing the VO2max intervals ay levels greater than the 106% I did VO2max-1 starting at 107% and increasing 1% per interval to finish at my 5' power level. Hard but not a killer. I'll try upping it a bit more with VO2-2 Correct me if I'm wrong Marc, but this will work much better for those not classed as Sprinters. There is a 60 watt difference between my CP and 5min power result. So if I start at 107% I would actually need to finish at 125% to reach my 5min power. My coach had me do a slightly different workout this morning and I blew up on the last interval. 5x3min @ 107%, 109%, 111%, 115%, 119%. I lasted 1min in the last interval and then begged for my legs to keep going for the last 2min as I watched my power drop away... Correct and this is why I will write the VO2max focused efforts as >105% (hard) because this will depend on the person. Generally targetting something that is at your five minute test for short VO2max efforts (30s/30s for example) and a bit less for the longer intervals will be better. For many triathletes this will be somewhere in the 105-110% range but there are those, like you, who have a larger delta between the two tests. Shane |
| 2014-02-04 7:21 AM in reply to: ReginaPhalange72 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Did wk3 sweetspot last night. Was not mentally into this ride and the calf's weren't happy (lots of stretching during recoveries). Finally at the 4th interval something switched inside and I was motoring and felt "fresh" for lack of a better word. TSS 118, IF 0.864
Attachments ---------------- 2014-02-03 BTWK3-SWE.csv (206KB - 1 downloads) |
| 2014-02-04 7:44 AM in reply to: marcag |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Week 5 Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by GoFaster Here we go. And for everyone who keeps pushing their workouts, this is what it looks like when you fail. Some observations For one, you have 10minutes 5x(1 on+1off) work immediately before the 5x3' intervals. It seems to be above threshold intervals, so you are not coming into this 5x3 100% fresh. You do 37.5 minutes of riding at a NP of 95% of your FTP (IF=.95). Not easy. I don't think you are slacking off, your HR is pretty pegged, You previously described 179 as "near death experience" I am not sure when you started riding hard again from your illness. Seems like an aggressive workout early in the cycle. Remember, the group has been doing these for a few weeks. As well Shane gave 5' of recovery before starting the VO2 intervals. His pre-VO2 intervals are very short, just to warm up. Pretty different workout. I agree it's aggressive, but this is what I was handed and I went out to try and achieve it. I was certainly on the rivet during the end of the wokout, and I "feel" like the HR is still a bit higher than it should be, but I don't know whether it makes a difference if I'm maxing out my effort at 175bpm or 180bpm as long as the legs are there. In this case, they weren't there for the final interval, but until the 2nd last interval my HR was dropping a decent amount, making me believe I was recovering between the intervals. |
| 2014-02-04 7:55 AM in reply to: trisuppo |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Also did Week 5, Threshold 1 ride this morning. My legs were feeling heavy and tired through the entire warm-up (in fact, I started to think my power smoothing was off because I was all over the place...). My legs eventually came back to me and I managed to get through the 5' FTP intervals, increasing by 1W for each of them. Max HR got up to 165 -- pretty close to LTHR of 168. Yikes!! TSS of 88 -- definitely felt like I was working hard, but also never felt like I was in danger of failing or bailing on any of the intervals, so that's good. |
| 2014-02-04 8:14 AM in reply to: GoFaster |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 5 Originally posted by GoFaster I agree it's aggressive, but this is what I was handed and I went out to try and achieve it. sometime aggressive is good to figure out where the limits are |
| 2014-02-04 9:53 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Veteran 945 South Windsor, CT | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by dtoce so...I'm now reading Hunter Allen and Stephen Cheung's book 'Cutting Edge Cycling'. Extremely well written and lots of data driven comments. I really, really love it. Last night in the 'periodization' chapter, they discuss high intensity training and quote a study by Gibala in 2006 stating that 4 sessions of 4-7x 30 sec max sprints spread out over 14 days, was a strong stimulant to aerobic performance, with a 100% increase in time to exhaustion at 80%vo2 peak power. This seems like the Billat 30/30 running workout I talked about earlier, but may have a bigger endurance benefit than true v02max improvement-especiallyy as there was apparently no change in v02max in these subjects. Also, a big limiter of the study was that the control group did no exercise rather than compare to low intensity. (You'd think people could design these studies a bit better...) Are there other studies regarding high intensity on the bike and aerobic benefit?? I haven't read this book yet; what is the protocol for the 30s max sprints (specifically the rest)? Shane Shane, I am at the office now seeing patients. I will post tonight... This is perfect! I recognize a bunch of authors whose papers or books I have. I will read this later tonight also... Thanks for this, Marc. |
| 2014-02-04 3:01 PM in reply to: dtoce |
Master 3888 Overland Park, KS | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Was hoping to have Wk4 VO2Max workout done by now but day 2 of being sick....again. This is the first time I caught two colds in one winter since I can remember. I think I' coming out of it I might try the workout later tonight depending on how I feel. Just resting/keeping hydraled and luckily no loss of apetite. Keep up the good work, I think we'll see some good stuff after the net test. I don't remember exactly what it was, a survey or questionaire, but whether or not I was COACHED or SELF TRAINED was asked. I've never hired a coach but couldn't find myself to say self-coached either. Had their been a fill in the blank response I would have written something like "Neither a personal coach or self trained, but many mentors". So many thanks to you folks, especially Marq and Shane and I think it's pretty cool to have the experts chime in with their input, such a bonus to an already invaluable mentor group. |
| 2014-02-04 3:16 PM in reply to: reecealan |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by reecealan I think it's pretty cool to have the experts chime in with their input, such a bonus to an already invaluable mentor group. This brings up an idea I had and have made some steps to make come true. This applies to lurkers as well. I don't want to turn this thread into a Q&A for lurkers it must remain the mentor group for the original members. But I'll take questions from lurkers, compile them and I have some interesting people that have accepted to come and answer them. We'll do this more towards the end of the session. We will also have a couple of guests drop in to share their personal experience training with power. Again, not right away, it will be a free for all in here and we still have many weeks of work to do. But I am letting you know know and will mention it again. So lurkers, if you have questions to be answered by experts. Some really cool people BTW. |
| 2014-02-04 3:24 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Veteran 945 South Windsor, CT | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally postedby gsmacleod I haven't read this book yet; what is the protocol for the 30s max sprints (specifically the rest)? Shane Had a 'no show', so I searched and found the abstract and the full version. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16825308 http://jp.physoc.org/content/575/3/901.full Looks like it was a small study-couple dozen people, only for a few weeks. 3 sessions/week for each group. Hi intensity=4-6x30 sec-all out (250%) followed by 4 minutes easy/recovery. There was extensive encouragement to help them achieve the intense effort. vs 90-120 minutes of endurance cycling at 65%. Power also increased by 40W, compared to 25W in the hi intensity group. Small study, but I'm gong to do more research on this. What I'm really wondering about is whether this would be a 'time-efficient' way to not lose fitness in the offseason. and should thetraining season begin with short intervals like this to 'jump start' training. In running, this would support the rationale for continuing to do strides year round. Not only for neuromuscular entrainment, efficiency/economy etc, but also to prevent loss of fitness, specifically running at race pace. Hmmmmm. Very interesting stuff. |
| 2014-02-04 5:14 PM in reply to: Scott71 |
Veteran 945 South Windsor, CT | Subject: RE: Week 5 Originally posted by Scott71 Your best estimate will be with bestbikesplit.com If you have a Garmin of the file you can upload it, and play with various power to match what you did You can even set a wind speed and direction. The race may already be in their database. Very cool website. Much appreciated. that is a VERY cool website I plugged in my newly discovered FTP and used an IF of 0.9 for the 1/2IM and 0.8 for the IM and came up with bike splits that were both about 2 minutes off my actual splits.I'm not sure if that is legitimate choice for IF or not yet...but it gave me fairly accurate splits. I rode 3:04 for the Quassy 1/2 IM (prediction of 3:05) I rode 6:22 for IMLP (prediction of 6:20) |
| 2014-02-04 7:33 PM in reply to: marcag |
| 20 Brampton, Ontario | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Good evening Friends Just finished workout 1 week 5 THR2 took everything I had to complete by far hardest one so far TSS 104 NP 206 HR was around 166-171 from 57min to 1h07.. all done for tonight Cheers Pierre |
| 2014-02-04 7:41 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 441 Maine | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Did Week5 THR-1 tonight. That was tough tonight, just didn't have the energy in the legs to hold all the threshold intervals right at 100%. I think I was still feeling a little bit of Sunday's long run. Hoping the VO2-1 on Thursday feels better. Thanks for posting those other links, I've been saving them up and plan on reading through some of those tomorrow night. |
| 2014-02-04 8:25 PM in reply to: marcag |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by reecealan I think it's pretty cool to have the experts chime in with their input, such a bonus to an already invaluable mentor group. This brings up an idea I had and have made some steps to make come true. This applies to lurkers as well. I don't want to turn this thread into a Q&A for lurkers it must remain the mentor group for the original members. But I'll take questions from lurkers, compile them and I have some interesting people that have accepted to come and answer them. We'll do this more towards the end of the session. We will also have a couple of guests drop in to share their personal experience training with power. Again, not right away, it will be a free for all in here and we still have many weeks of work to do. But I am letting you know know and will mention it again. So lurkers, if you have questions to be answered by experts. Some really cool people BTW. That sounds very cool. |
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| Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open Pages: 1 ... 2 3 4 5 | ||
| Birkierunner's (Jim Kelley) General + Long Course Group (OPEN) Pages: 1 ... 14 15 16 17 | ||
| Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED Pages: 1 ... 72 73 74 75 | ||
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