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2015-06-04 12:08 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by ligersandtions

Hypothetical question for those of you who train and race with power:  if you had a 40k TT scheduled and your power meter crapped out on you and replacing/repairing it is unlikely to be able to be done in time -- would you still race?  Why or why not?

Yes because I race longer time trials best by using HR and RPE.  It sucks that you won't havepower data to look back on and better dial in your FTP, but I don't think it will stop you from having a good race.  Maybe if the course was extremely hilly...but from what I remember your course is not?



2015-06-04 3:10 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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, California
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

So it's looking like our Alcatraz roster will be me, Arend and Chris.  Fred said he's got a sinus infection and won't make it, so that's a big blow to Team USA

I got my bike all broken down for the Ruster case... first time using it.  Now we'll see if I can put it back together haha.

2015-06-04 3:12 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by spudone

So it's looking like our Alcatraz roster will be me, Arend and Chris.  Fred said he's got a sinus infection and won't make it, so that's a big blow to Team USA

I got my bike all broken down for the Ruster case... first time using it.  Now we'll see if I can put it back together haha.

Yes, and I came into training camp under trained and overwieght...   so it's all on you Mark.  

2015-06-04 3:40 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
For those of you doing Alcatraz, did you qualify for this race or just register early? If qualifying, can you let me know what race/time/etc you need in order to do so? I'd like to do this one next year so I need to figure out how to sneak in!
2015-06-04 4:00 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by ligersandtions

Hypothetical question for those of you who train and race with power:  if you had a 40k TT scheduled and your power meter crapped out on you and replacing/repairing it is unlikely to be able to be done in time -- would you still race?  Why or why not?

Yes because I race longer time trials best by using HR and RPE.  It sucks that you won't havepower data to look back on and better dial in your FTP, but I don't think it will stop you from having a good race.  Maybe if the course was extremely hilly...but from what I remember your course is not?

Definitely no hills on the course....maybe some wind, but the biggest elevation change I'll have is coming off the start ramp!  I really should be better at pacing by RPE, but I'm so dependent on having HR and power data to back it up.  A couple weekends ago, I forgot to put my HR strap on and was absolutely convinced that my power meter was reading at least 10W too low given how hard the effort felt.

The PM is good for me for a few things....it keeps me in check early when I feel good, it gives me something to focus on when it starts hurting, and is totally a mental tool for me to convince myself that I can keep going when it starts hurting "too bad".  I should be better about pacing by RPE, but I'm just not.

2015-06-04 4:01 PM
in reply to: TXTriRook

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by TXTriRook For those of you doing Alcatraz, did you qualify for this race or just register early? If qualifying, can you let me know what race/time/etc you need in order to do so? I'd like to do this one next year so I need to figure out how to sneak in!

I'm guessing based on your name, you're located in TX.  Look into the Kemah Triathlon -- I think both the sprint and Olympic distances are qualifiers.  Assume you have to be 1 or 2 in the age group to qualify.



2015-06-04 4:07 PM
in reply to: TXTriRook

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by TXTriRook For those of you doing Alcatraz, did you qualify for this race or just register early? If qualifying, can you let me know what race/time/etc you need in order to do so? I'd like to do this one next year so I need to figure out how to sneak in!

We all got in via the lottery.  I think Fred got in through a sponsor?  I've never looked at what qualifies someone, probably fast!  

2015-06-04 4:17 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Thanks. I'll definitely check out Kemah, although top 2 in my AG may be a stretch unless it's one of the smaller races and everyone else in my AG is injured! Good to know about the lottery. I'll look into it for next year. Good luck this weekend for those of you racing
2015-06-04 4:28 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Master
5557
50005002525
, California
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by TXTriRook For those of you doing Alcatraz, did you qualify for this race or just register early? If qualifying, can you let me know what race/time/etc you need in order to do so? I'd like to do this one next year so I need to figure out how to sneak in!

We all got in via the lottery.  I think Fred got in through a sponsor?  I've never looked at what qualifies someone, probably fast!  

Fred qualified at a small race.  I don't think he realized it was a qualifier until afterwards

2015-06-04 4:52 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by TXTriRook For those of you doing Alcatraz, did you qualify for this race or just register early? If qualifying, can you let me know what race/time/etc you need in order to do so? I'd like to do this one next year so I need to figure out how to sneak in!

We all got in via the lottery.  I think Fred got in through a sponsor?  I've never looked at what qualifies someone, probably fast!  

Fred qualified at a small race.  I don't think he realized it was a qualifier until afterwards




That happened to me too. I did my first Oly tri in over 10 years and I got an email a couple months later that I qualified for Age Group Nationals. I didn't even know there was such a thing as Nationals for triathlon but now I can't wait to go to Milwaukee in 2 months and make it rain!
2015-06-04 5:10 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by ligersandtions

Hypothetical question for those of you who train and race with power:  if you had a 40k TT scheduled and your power meter crapped out on you and replacing/repairing it is unlikely to be able to be done in time -- would you still race?  Why or why not?

Yes because I race longer time trials best by using HR and RPE.  It sucks that you won't havepower data to look back on and better dial in your FTP, but I don't think it will stop you from having a good race.  Maybe if the course was extremely hilly...but from what I remember your course is not?

Definitely no hills on the course....maybe some wind, but the biggest elevation change I'll have is coming off the start ramp!  I really should be better at pacing by RPE, but I'm so dependent on having HR and power data to back it up.  A couple weekends ago, I forgot to put my HR strap on and was absolutely convinced that my power meter was reading at least 10W too low given how hard the effort felt.

The PM is good for me for a few things....it keeps me in check early when I feel good, it gives me something to focus on when it starts hurting, and is totally a mental tool for me to convince myself that I can keep going when it starts hurting "too bad".  I should be better about pacing by RPE, but I'm just not.

I hear you.  I was like that maybe the first 3 or so years racing with power.  But after a number of races, I sort of just figured it out how my HR should drift and what it should feel like RPE wise.  Power is still good for fine tuning though.

For a 40k, the race is rather long...so don't worry about starting a bit on the easy side since you won't have power numbers to hold you back while still feeling good.



2015-06-06 10:40 AM
in reply to: 0

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by ligersandtions

Hypothetical question for those of you who train and race with power:  if you had a 40k TT scheduled and your power meter crapped out on you and replacing/repairing it is unlikely to be able to be done in time -- would you still race?  Why or why not?

Yes because I race longer time trials best by using HR and RPE.  It sucks that you won't havepower data to look back on and better dial in your FTP, but I don't think it will stop you from having a good race.  Maybe if the course was extremely hilly...but from what I remember your course is not?

Definitely no hills on the course....maybe some wind, but the biggest elevation change I'll have is coming off the start ramp!  I really should be better at pacing by RPE, but I'm so dependent on having HR and power data to back it up.  A couple weekends ago, I forgot to put my HR strap on and was absolutely convinced that my power meter was reading at least 10W too low given how hard the effort felt.

The PM is good for me for a few things....it keeps me in check early when I feel good, it gives me something to focus on when it starts hurting, and is totally a mental tool for me to convince myself that I can keep going when it starts hurting "too bad".  I should be better about pacing by RPE, but I'm just not.

I hear you.  I was like that maybe the first 3 or so years racing with power.  But after a number of races, I sort of just figured it out how my HR should drift and what it should feel like RPE wise.  Power is still good for fine tuning though.

For a 40k, the race is rather long...so don't worry about starting a bit on the easy side since you won't have power numbers to hold you back while still feeling good.

Definitely still go for it. Think I've only changed workouts if a measuring device goes out for them. I've still done events, but rethought the approach some in how best to utilize what I had available. HR isn't too bad for me as I used that for some time before getting power. I certainly do miss power when it goes though!

Another related thing is that I seem some advocate for is throwing out the measuring devices or leaving certain ones behind to learn something else. That's something I really do not agree with. The specific one in this case is to leave off power and go with HR and/or RPE. I would take power off the screen but still collect the data for later analysis. Without the baseline of power to compare against you are just as blind in how well paced things were as before having power. You don't know if the pacing was better now than before because you are still limited by the relative accuracy of the measuring systems used. There could still be spikes and surges that are not picked up by HR and you still don't know any better. Not as well as power can say, even in later analysis.

That's not really the case hear as it sounds like power is not available at all as opposed to willfully leaving it out. I think it's good get a decent feel for a few systems. Having familiarity with the HR curve has helped my get an idea of what day I might be able to have. Also in determining fitness improvements (or declines). When my 2 x 20's don't reach quite as high of a HR I can probably bump it up 5w. You won't know as certainly about the pacing without the power, but you can get a better feel of working with HR with fewer things to keep track of.



Edited by brigby1 2015-06-06 10:41 AM
2015-06-06 12:11 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Houston, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

My PM seems to have fixed itself (for now).  I'm going to hope it holds out for the next two weeks and then send it back in.  If it craps out, I'll just try to pace by HR / RPE.  One of my issues is that I rarely (never) do long threshold intervals, like 2x20, outside.  I know what my HR does inside and have a pretty good feel for RPE inside, but honestly, everything seems so much harder outside.  I know that's opposite of what most people say, but I don't think riding in 80+ F with 90+ % humidity makes outside riding "easier" than indoor riding.

I also get mildly (!!) obsessive about riding without power....my PMC will get all jacked up and look like I quit riding if I don't have a working PM!

2015-06-06 5:21 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Glad to hear the PM is working again Nicole, hope it holds together for the TT!

Here is some SBR...   porn? from the day before Alcatraz.  Chris and I did a quick swim this morning and Mark and I went to the packet pickup (stupid long lines) and pre-race meeting together.  Somehow got separated on the way out of there.





(chris-arend.jpg)



(mark-arend.jpg)



Attachments
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chris-arend.jpg (46KB - 3 downloads)
mark-arend.jpg (60KB - 3 downloads)
2015-06-06 5:52 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Master
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Eugene, Oregon
Bronze member
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Yep, if you are riding outside using HR then ideally you should test to determine zones in the same conditions. I haven't actually done this for cycling as I don't have a really safe place to test outdoors (there's one turn every 12 minutes or so where I really have to slow down and watch for oncoming cars, plus some speed bumps), but I did the FTP test in a pretty warm gym (70's). I did do it outdoors for running, which was awful (dry heaves at side of road). Basically what heat does is accelerate the normal upward drift of HR at every level of effort. (In other words, you work harder the longer you go, because the body spends more energy trying to cool itself--basically, an overheated engine.)

Heading out for another hot brick pretty soon. Can't wait to get back to US in one week so my long runs and bricks won't be death marches.
2015-06-06 6:07 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by axteraa

Glad to hear the PM is working again Nicole, hope it holds together for the TT!

Here is some SBR...   porn? from the day before Alcatraz.  Chris and I did a quick swim this morning and Mark and I went to the packet pickup (stupid long lines) and pre-race meeting together.  Somehow got separated on the way out of there.




Good luck to all !


2015-06-06 6:21 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Whoo-hoo - great pics! I am so excited for you guys I just cannot stand it! Good luck, can't wait to read all about it!

2015-06-06 6:26 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by axteraa

Here is some SBR...   porn? from the day before Alcatraz.  

Well...just don't go telling your non triathlete friends that you got together with another guy, dressed in skin tight black outfits, and posed for porn photos.  

Good luck to you all...sounds like fun.

2015-06-06 6:28 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Wait...did you just post a pic of me and you and call it "porn"??? The line took so long I was there for the "mandatory meeting," which was, in reality, a joke, though thankfully short ("just watch the videos"). Although sounds like maybe it'll be a frisky current?. I also ran in to Mark on my ride back.... so the circle closes.... Should be a great day
2015-06-06 6:30 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by ligersandtions

My PM seems to have fixed itself (for now).  I'm going to hope it holds out for the next two weeks and then send it back in.  If it craps out, I'll just try to pace by HR / RPE.  One of my issues is that I rarely (never) do long threshold intervals, like 2x20, outside.  I know what my HR does inside and have a pretty good feel for RPE inside, but honestly, everything seems so much harder outside.  I know that's opposite of what most people say, but I don't think riding in 80+ F with 90+ % humidity makes outside riding "easier" than indoor riding.

I also get mildly (!!) obsessive about riding without power....my PMC will get all jacked up and look like I quit riding if I don't have a working PM!

Hopefully it works out.  I'm hoping mine just needs a new battery because it was really going wonky today.  It was perfect on Thursday, but today my 3s power was bouncing all around anywhere from 20-50 watts second by second (so theoretically 60-150 watts real time differences)...then sometimes reading 0 for a while while climbing.  I think the last time I changed it was in mid February...so it could be.  If not, I'm not that worried racing wise as I've only got road races left and it's more about following wheels than pacing by power.

2015-06-06 7:20 PM
in reply to: Jason N

Master
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, California
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by axteraa

Here is some SBR...   porn? from the day before Alcatraz.  

Well...just don't go telling your non triathlete friends that you got together with another guy, dressed in skin tight black outfits, and posed for porn photos.  

Good luck to you all...sounds like fun.

And you wonder why I didn't want to go "swim" this morning :p


2015-06-07 3:59 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Oh man, what a race!  I'm going to have to spend some time writing that one up.  I saw Chris out on the run course but didn't see Mark at all.

2015-06-07 4:31 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Tracker wasn't working, so I couldn't even stalk you guys properly.  Looking forward to reading about it!

2015-06-07 4:48 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Master
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50005002525
, California
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by axteraa

Oh man, what a race!  I'm going to have to spend some time writing that one up.  I saw Chris out on the run course but didn't see Mark at all.

I liked the swim, run was good. Bike was horrifically dangerous if you were in the main pack. I wanted to go faster but people were all over the place. Not moving right, others passing left / weaving, etc. I'm just glad I got through without someone running into me.
2015-06-07 6:07 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by spudone
Originally posted by axteraa

Oh man, what a race!  I'm going to have to spend some time writing that one up.  I saw Chris out on the run course but didn't see Mark at all.

I liked the swim, run was good. Bike was horrifically dangerous if you were in the main pack. I wanted to go faster but people were all over the place. Not moving right, others passing left / weaving, etc. I'm just glad I got through without someone running into me.

I'm glad I got off the boat early.  I may have accidentally ended up on the wrong level starting out...

I had a near miss on the bike - high speed rear wheel lockup almost slid out from under me when someone decided the line I was taking was better than theirs.  I could see how it would be sketchy with some of the packs of people I saw.

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