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Las Vegas Triathlon - Triathlon1/2 Ironman


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Boulder City, Nevada
United States
Mountain Man Events
102F / 39C
Sunny
Total Time = 8h 11m 28s
Overall Rank = DFL/
Age Group =
Age Group Rank = 0/
Pre-race routine:

Ended up having to work on Saturday so I drove from LA Sat night. Drank about 4 bottles of water on the way and arrived at the hotel at around 11pm. Woke up next morning at 4:30am, had 2 cliff bars and a cup of coffee. Headed to the race and sipped on a Gatorade while getting set up. Had plenty of time in T so I got all squared away and started talking to other participants.
Event warmup:

Did some light stretching and then swam about 100yds just to get loose. The water was arm so I decided to just wear the bottom of the De Soto 2 piece.
Swim
  • 45m 54s
  • 2112 yards
  • 02m 10s / 100 yards
Comments:

Went into this race with no taper and the idea that it would be an IMAZ training day as much as possible. Goal was to keep the HR in the 120's for the swim and work up as the day progressed. Entire swim felt comfortable, I was just trying to imagine doing it twice, and I feel that I could have done that pace or probably faster for the full distance. Came out of the water feeling great.
What would you do differently?:

go faster, but swim portion worked out fine for me and I went as planned here.
Transition 1
  • 04m 45s
Comments:

Transition times were long because the run up was long. Only thing I was really disappointed in here was that another racer decided to steal my sandals that I placed near the water to run up the rocky 200yds or so boat ramp.
What would you do differently?:

Pack more nutrition for the bike (just in case)
Bike
  • 3h 50m
  • 56 miles
  • 14.61 mile/hr
Comments:

Leaving transition I had 2 bottle holders w/ 1 bottle Gatorade, 1 water. The first 1hr of the bike was nice, not too hot out. Then around mile 18 I was out of fluids. I managed a Gel (tough to do with no fluids). and waited for the turnaround at mile 28. Finally, I made it alive to the turnaround but was spent. SO thirsty I stayed there for about 3 minutes, slammed a bottle of water, took 2 more Gatorade and applied sunscreen. I realized this was the only stop and it scared me a bit. I was so thirsty already and now it was getting hot. On the way back I I was getting passed . Ran out of fluids again around mile 40 and that last 16 miles home was very tough. I felt like I had no energy. I was either at 8-10mph going up, or 30+mph going down. Very frustrating for me.
What would you do differently?:

Nutrition Nutrition Nutrition. The only other HIM I did was IM branded and the aid stations did not compare. This destroyed me as I didn't have a back up plan.
Transition 2
  • 03m 12s
Comments:

Looking at the time my brain was saying stop at T2 and take the DNF. I knew going 35 longer than last HIM on greater fitness was a sign something was not going well. I decided to press on and see how I felt running.
What would you do differently?:

take the DNF. Better decision making
Run
  • 3h 27m
  • 13.1 miles
  • 15m 48s  min/mile
Comments:

Within 2 miles I was done. I kept going back and forth with quit vs just continue. There was an aid station at the start of the run, I took down about 3 cups of water and hoped it would hit me. Next thing you know I was at the 3mile mark and I figured it would take me 6miles just to walk back so why not finish? Another racer came up on me and we stayed together the rest of the day. Had he not came up I probably would have stopped, yet him staying with me later may have saved me from peril. We trotted/walked for most of the course and got very discouraged when after mile 6ish there was no one at the aid stations. I was very surprised there was no SAG wagon or anything. I would have much preferred to have my chip pulled and race over than to not have support (seemed a bit dangerous) It was over 100 in blazing heat and no nutrition...only water stops about every 2.5 miles. I was in such bad shape at one point I had no more Gels only chamoi Butr left. I flipped it over to look at the ingredients but decided against taking it orally :-). Around mile 9 I told the other racer (Adam), "just continue on, I'm just gonna sit here for awhile". He highly recommended we continue on and find water. no matter how slow we went. At this point we realized everyone behind us had bailed out, we were the only racers left. We finally came upon another aid station around mile 11. No more cups at this one just a trash can full of water. We picked up some cups on the ground and used them. I dumped some water on my head and was getting nervous because I realized I had made some poor decisions (mainly the one where I thought sitting on the ground in the dessert to try to cool off was a good idea). Finally around mile 12 a truck comes up (participant possibly) and asked if we needed anything. He had a cooler with Gaotrade so we drank that and it hit the spot. Eventually we crossed the finish and I was amazed to see 8hrs on the board. I was actually shooting for a 6hr day. I acutally felt no pride in the finish. Not sure what it accomplished.
What would you do differently?:

I should have never started that run with that nutrition. Learn to make smarter decisions. Long term health much better than pride. Pride can destroy you. Waht did I really gain from grinding that out for 8hrs...clearly 3hrs beyond when I was "done".
Post race
Warm down:

There was no post race. No Gatorade, no bananas, nothing. Not even any people really. There was a bunch of ice in the back of a truck so I pored 4 or 5 bags on the ground and laid on top and had someone poor another 2 bags on top of me. A staff member finally came up to me and asked if I was alright and if I wanted to see the medic. She said the medics were already gone but she could call an ambulance. I said "no, it's OK, I am fine".

What limited your ability to perform faster:

Nutrition, lack of heat acclimation.

Event comments:

Leaving the race site I had a 4hr drive in front of me so I stopped off at the race site hotel. I decided to sneak in and use there pool and shower considering I was there the night before and used nothing. I ended up sitting in the pool for about 20 minutes and then as I started to get cold I took a shower and then went to the bathroom to change. Once I got to the bathroom (near the casino floor) I was changing into my clothes when my entire body seemed to cramp up. I went from being cold to now sweating again and I had a massive headache. I told myself I was starving and was getting ready to get some food finally. Went I bent over to tie my shoes I fell onto the floor of the bathroom. I wasn't sure if I blacked out or not but I couldn't get up just yet so I stayed on the floor. Eventually a guest came in and saw me and soon a hotel employee arrived. They thought I was drunk and were talking to me like I was drunk. Apparently my nose was bleeding. They did help me up to a bench outside and got me some water. I told them I wasn't a hotel guest today that I was just using the pool and they quickly overlooked any medical condition to say something in regards to "for guest only" yada yada yada. Thing is, had they been a little more helpful I would have just got a room and stayed. I eventually left the hotel and found a burger king. I swallowed fries, a chicken sandwich, a choc shake (like crack at this point) and two cold waters. I had a massive headache and just rested in the cold ac of the car and called my wife. She begged me to go to the hospital but I knew at this point I was just severally malnourished and needed calories. Lacking any infection I decided I could nurse myself back quicker than what it would take to wait on a IV (best case scenario...more likely just sit there while they watch you drink fluids) After about 30 min I started feeling better and was on my way. Within a few hours I was feeling much better. AS I write this the next day I feel more drained than any race before. After all the burger King and a later Taco Bell Stop I was still down 10lbs this morning, the day after. After a short time of reflection I realize I was more malnourished during that race than I was in a 7 day survival school back in the Navy. While poor race set up has some blame...there were 88 other participants that made it through OK (26 were DNF out of 115 to start). I guess what doesn't kill makes you stronger...just not sure how this accomplished that. A bit discouraged now going into the final 2 months prep for IMAZ.




Last updated: 2009-08-30 12:00 AM
Swimming
00:45:54 | 2112 yards | 02m 10s / 100yards
Age Group: 0/
Overall: 0/
Performance: Good
Suit: bottom
Course: Out and back around the buoys in Lake Meade.
Start type: Wade Plus: Waves
Water temp: 80F / 27C Current: Low
200M Perf. Good Remainder: Good
Breathing: Good Drafting: Average
Waves: Average Navigation: Good
Rounding: Good
T1
Time: 04:45
Performance: Good
Cap removal: Good Helmet on/
Suit off:
Yes
Wetsuit stuck? No Run with bike: Yes
Jump on bike: No
Getting up to speed: Good
Biking
03:50:00 | 56 miles | 14.61 mile/hr
Age Group: 0/
Overall: 0/
Performance: Bad
Wind: None
Course: about 20-30 rolling hills each way. Spun up all hills, powered down most hills. No flats that I remember.
Road: Smooth Dry Cadence:
Turns: Good Cornering: Good
Gear changes: Good Hills: Below average
Race pace: Hard Drinks: Not enough
T2
Time: 03:12
Overall: Bad
Riding w/ feet on shoes Good
Jumping off bike
Running with bike
Racking bike
Shoe and helmet removal
Running
03:27:00 | 13.1 miles | 15m 48s  min/mile
Age Group: 0/
Overall: 0/
Performance: Bad
Course: uphill for the first 3 miles or so, then mostly flat for 6-7 and down hill back. first 2 miles very rocky.
Keeping cool Bad Drinking Not enough
Post race
Weight change: %
Overall: Bad
Mental exertion [1-5] 1
Physical exertion [1-5] 1
Good race? No
Evaluation
Course challenge Too hard
Organized? No
Events on-time? Yes
Lots of volunteers? No
Plenty of drinks? No
Post race activities: Bad
Race evaluation [1-5] 1

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2009-09-28 7:19 PM

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Master
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Subject: Las Vegas Triathlon
I know I know...8hrs.  Yes it took me that long...really.

Edited by sax 2009-09-28 7:45 PM


2009-09-28 9:16 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Champion
5781
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Northridge, California
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
Yikes...glad you're okay.  Lot of scary stuff in there.  Won't say "way to tough it out" cuz you obviously got the point that sometimes the DNF is the way to go and takes more mental toughness for some folks to accept than it might to limp through to the finish.  Thanks so much for sharing the experience.
2009-09-28 9:19 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Champion
19812
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MA
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
Dang...so very hot....sounds like a real tough situation without enough aid stations.....

It is good that you bumped into another racer to get through the last of the miles together.

I don't do well in heat either..my IM was 95 and I was miserable and sick.

Glad you are okay and hopefully learned from this experience. Allow yourself to recover fully before you get back to training.
2009-09-28 9:20 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Extreme Veteran
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100100100
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
Sounds to me like the race director should be fired and that you learned a lot about yourself in this race. I'm sure that right now you don't feel good about the decision, but looking back someday you will be proud. 8 hours is still a finish.
2009-09-28 10:03 PM
in reply to: #2430830

Extreme Veteran
330
10010010025
Austin Texas
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
Wow, that was the harshest race report I've read in a long time. Though you admit your mental errors, it is still up to the race director to make sure no one DIES! No medical personnel with racers still on the course is insane. I hope you and several other participants complain the the RD, that is just insane and dangerous.
2009-09-28 10:05 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Master
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San Diego, CA
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
Wow ... that's some seriously hard racing. I hope you recover quickly. I can't believe that the Race Director allowed the aid stations to be abandoned.


2009-09-28 10:46 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
Jesus, that's downright criminal
2009-09-29 9:10 AM
in reply to: #2430830

Member
19

Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
wow. just wow. brings new meaning to HTFU. 
2009-09-29 9:36 AM
in reply to: #2430830

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Master
1524
1000500
Reston, VA
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon

i completely agree with the above comment.  what that race director did was criminal.  i am shocked and horrified.  as much as you take responsibility for bad decision making, you made your decisions assuming that there would be appropriate race support.  this turned out to be wrong, but you could never have known that.  you could have died.  i hope you send this report to the people in charge of the race.  i had been talking to my husband about doing this race after hearing about it from you.  now?  never?  i am so glad you are okay.

2009-09-29 10:25 AM
in reply to: #2431721

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Champion
10019
50005000
, Minnesota
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon

Oh Wow!  Why can't RDs understand that the last racers need water and medics just as much as the first.  I'm glad there was a relatively happy ending.  I shudder to think what might have happened if you didn't have a friend with you out there.

2009-09-29 10:53 AM
in reply to: #2430830

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Elite
5316
5000100100100
Alturas, California
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon

What is amazing is that with all the complaints after last year, they actually decreased the water support on the bike by 60 percent.  Pretty amazing.  One water stop in 56 miles.  Did they say there was only going to be one stop or did they mislead you?  Last year they said water stops on the run every 1 mile and it was every 2.5 miles for most of the course.   It looks like the event itself is getting worse each year.



2009-09-29 10:56 AM
in reply to: #2430830

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Expert
1028
100025
Chandler, AZ
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
This RD also puts on the Mountain Man tri in flagstaff. He is know for not having enough aid stations and support. This is especially true at the HIM distance. The desert can be brutal for those that are unprepared for it.

I say put this race far behind you. Forget about it until next year some time. You do not need that negative energy as you make the final push to IMAZ.

I can assure you that the temps will be mild to warm in November for IMAZ. Lows in the 50s and highs in the 70-80s. There is plenty of support for the race.

Hope to meet you in November.
2009-09-29 11:12 AM
in reply to: #2430830

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Expert
838
50010010010025
West Palm Beach, FL
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
Scary race. How could they have so little support out there? Glad you're OK!
2009-09-29 11:29 AM
in reply to: #2430830

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Extreme Veteran
357
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Ft. Myers, Florida
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
All I can say is WOW.  That is insane.  I sure hope you don't plan on signing up for this one again next year.  Don't let this experience make you question Arizona. Try to put it behind you.  Paying close attention to your rest, hydration and nutrition will be critical for the next couple of weeks, not just the next couple of days.

Take care of yourself.  You are one tough cookie.
2009-09-29 11:38 AM
in reply to: #2430830

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Champion
5376
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PA
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
Everyone already over used the "W" word but it is the first natural reaction.  Thank you for posting a report like this though.  I want to try an HIM in 2010 and it's important for newbs like me to see stuff like this.  We can't take this stuff lightly.

I'm glad you are OK and I am confident you will be so much better from this experience. 
2009-09-29 11:47 AM
in reply to: #2432034

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Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
I ALMOST signed up on packet pickup day to do the Half (but most likely the Oly)...  But decided to be prudent and just get my training in instead.  You helped me feel more at ease with my decision.

However, during my 4 hour bike ride on the other side of town I was thinking about you guys because it was pretty hot out (I am used to it though).

I will add a few comments.

FIRST, I know how it is out there.  The hills are relentless.  They are not steep or long, but it's a constant up and down, so the HR does the same thing.  I have bonked (or come DAMN close to it many times out at lake mead during rides).

Second, the heat get oppresive.  I still have not turned in a good HIM time out there.  Legs get wasted on the bike because of the rollers, and the run in the heat is rough.  I would get calf cramps.

Third, I have also heard that this particular RD does not provide enough support.  Which is sad.  Pumpkinman and Rage have a half IM option and are pretty well supported (bbscendurancesports).

Don't get discouraged.  I know how you feel out there.  It really is a brutal course, IMO.  I would have to check, but my best times in an HIM out there are basically around 6:45.  I also get off the course thinking, "this was absolute hell, how am I supposed to do a full IM?"  Don't worry, they don't compare.

I found it's WAY too easy to over do it on the bike.  Crap, right out of the gate you have a mile climb from the lake.  I go too hard from the start and have to live with the damage to my legs for the rest of the race.

Good job for getting through it and don't let it bring you down.  Serious.  It's tough out there.


2009-09-29 2:26 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Pro
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Parker, CO
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon

Dude...glad you came out of that one okay!  That RD messed up big time.  A race out there in the hot sun of that distance needs much better support. 

2009-09-29 3:15 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Pro
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Evanston,
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon

What an experience - not in a good way.

Don't let the time mess with your head as you prepare for IMAZ.   This is NOT indicative of your training/prep/future performance.  As to the things that slowed you down (bad decision making, appalling lack of support, heat) - two won't apply.   (1) You learned something; (2) M-dot will provide appropriate support!

 No promises on heat, we're all hoping for a lovely November day for you IM athletes, but I have no doubt you will be ready.

2009-09-29 5:09 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Master
2327
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North Alabama
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
Glad your okay. That doesn't sound like fun at all!

Take care, take a few days, and hopefully you'll be better soon!

I think a DNF would be better than a statistic though!
2009-09-29 5:46 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Master
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Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
Thanks for all the support.  It's now Tuesday evening and I am feeling better, although I still have a headache .  Using this as a big recovery week trying to up the fluid intake.

Concerning what I thought I was in for...well, I missed all race meetings due to my late arrival on Sat night.  But looking at the website this is what we were promised:

Bike
70.3 Half: Follows Lakeshore Drive and turn right onto Northshore Road to the turnaround at mile post 18.1. Course then repeats DIRECTLY back to the transition area. 70.3 Half bike course has two water, food and gatorade station at start of Northshore Rd and the turnaround.


Run
Half Iron
continues onto the historic railroad paved trail . This portion of the run course is on the "Six Tunnels Half Marathon Course". Water aid stations are every 1.4 miles with both water and Gatorade. Race numbers must be worn and visible from the front. Water aid stations every 1 mile. Run defensively and follow all instructions of safety personnel. Remember, the runner always has the right of way. Traffic will not be stopped for this event. Please obey the police and safety personnel at intersections and turnarounds.

The bike description seems confusing...is there 1, or 2 stops, and what food was available...I saw no "food".
The run aid station description is a bit contradictorily as well.



I think I'll pass on this race in 2010. 

For the record, I was warned by ChrisM that this wasn't the best race for support.  Hoping this RR is read a year from now when someone is prepping for the race.  There will still be a demand for this race...if you do it please pack your own nutrition (camelbak maybe) and plan for the worst.  On the other hand...maybe this was a different experience for faster racers and these issues were not real for them.



Moving on, looking at IMAZ now.  Just being back in LA at 80 degrees today is a treat.
2009-09-29 6:19 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Master
1547
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Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
pness - 2009-09-29 4:04 PM so how long should should people stay  out in the desert at aide stations and wait for you to walk 13 miles? 8 hrs? come on you should have stayed home.


I would think the same thing if all I heard were numbers.  But I was anticipating a 6hr-ish finish based on current fitness and previous 70.3  Guess I got it wrong.

As I said in RR, I am putting the blame on me in this.  It didn't help that there were harsh conditions...but I relied on course support too much.  I should have had more nutrition starting the bike...rather than depend on my needs being met on course.  I think part of the problem I had is that when I did Oceanside 70.3 it was so well supported that I had this mentality that the course has plenty of stuff and I didn't need to take a lot of extra weight. 

My intentions are not to blame the RD...even though he took some risks.  My intentions are to get this out there to hopefully spark a discussion about DNF vs HTFU.  Although I haven't done IM yet I have done some harsh things in my life throughout my time in the military, hiking across much of the Apalacian Trail, and just general long IM training days.  It wasn't a question of fitness for me in this one...it was about making poor decisions and continuing anyway. 

As my wife tells me, I am very stubborn...and I have never quit anything in my life.  Never bailed out of anything when times got hard.  The point is...that was my downfall.  It can happen with relationships, financial decisions, and even racing...there comes a point when DNF is just the right thing to do. 

Kinda like staying married just for the kids...are you really doing them a favor?


2009-09-29 6:30 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
pness - 2009-09-29 4:04 PM so how long should should people stay  out in the desert at aide stations and wait for you to walk 13 miles? 8 hrs? come on you should have stayed home.


If the RD doesn't want to police his volunteers and ask them to do their job for that period of time, he should set course cutoffs.  If not, he should support all of the racers until they are off the course.  Otherwise, he's just taking their money and offering nothing in return, isn't he?
2009-09-29 6:56 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Extreme Veteran
314
100100100
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
pness - 2009-09-29 7:04 PM so how long should should people stay  out in the desert at aide stations and wait for you to walk 13 miles? 8 hrs? come on you should have stayed home.


Wow, smells like d-bag in here
2009-09-29 7:01 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Member
17

Dracut
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon

Reference:
so how long should should people stay  out in the desert at aide stations and wait for you to walk 13 miles? 8 hrs? come on you should have stayed home.

I disagree with this statement. 
Whether you run a little league practice or a tri race, you have a responsibility to protect people, even from themselves.  A race director should know there will always be someone trying to gut it out when they shouldn't.   The author has never denied he was a knucklehead.  However, it was 102 degrees, and not to drive around and ensure everyone was off the course is irresponsible. 
I collapsed a few years back and didn't want to go to the hospital (no one ever does).  The people said too bad, did the correct thing and called an ambulance, and I wasn't even lying on a bag of ice.
In June, I was at the Mooseman in New Hampshire.  Hours after most everyone finished, we were driving back and saw 2 people still running.  There was a vehicle with them making sure they got back safely.  I was under the impression this was standard practice.  I guess not.

Thank you Sax for writing this article.  It's an eye opener.

2009-09-29 7:09 PM
in reply to: #2430830

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Veteran
249
10010025
, Arizona
Subject: RE: Las Vegas Triathlon
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.  Unless you post the whole story on BT.  Smile  Glad you made it out alive and well enough to tell the story so we can all learn from it.  Good luck in Tempe!

wade
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