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2013-05-09 8:40 PM
in reply to: #4735834

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes
tri808 - 2013-05-09 8:15 PM
brigby1 - 2013-05-09 2:52 PM

More like 3 seconds.

You can run a 5k in 3 seconds?

Almost, but meant that it likely took all of 3 seconds to find the last time the OP posted.



2013-05-09 8:53 PM
in reply to: #4735860

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes
brigby1 - 2013-05-09 8:40 PM
tri808 - 2013-05-09 8:15 PM
brigby1 - 2013-05-09 2:52 PM

More like 3 seconds.

You can run a 5k in 3 seconds?

Almost, but meant that it likely took all of 3 seconds to find the last time the OP posted.

I'm running my 5ks close to 3 seconds too. I really want to break the sound barrier but it's damn hard!

2013-05-09 9:01 PM
in reply to: #4735878

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes
odpaul7 - 2013-05-09 9:53 PM
brigby1 - 2013-05-09 8:40 PM
tri808 - 2013-05-09 8:15 PM
brigby1 - 2013-05-09 2:52 PM

More like 3 seconds.

You can run a 5k in 3 seconds?

Almost, but meant that it likely took all of 3 seconds to find the last time the OP posted.

I'm running my 5ks close to 3 seconds too. I really want to break the sound barrier but it's damn hard!

You do realize that would be 1 sec per mile? You need to focus more on speed work than total mileage to reach that milestone

2013-05-09 9:03 PM
in reply to: #4735892

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes
pschriver - 2013-05-09 9:01 PM
odpaul7 - 2013-05-09 9:53 PM
brigby1 - 2013-05-09 8:40 PM
tri808 - 2013-05-09 8:15 PM
brigby1 - 2013-05-09 2:52 PM

More like 3 seconds.

You can run a 5k in 3 seconds?

Almost, but meant that it likely took all of 3 seconds to find the last time the OP posted.

I'm running my 5ks close to 3 seconds too. I really want to break the sound barrier but it's damn hard!

You do realize that would be 1 sec per mile? You need to focus more on speed work than total mileage to reach that milestone

actually the problem is the chafing :'(

2013-05-09 9:05 PM
in reply to: #4735860

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes
brigby1 - 2013-05-09 3:40 PM
tri808 - 2013-05-09 8:15 PM
brigby1 - 2013-05-09 2:52 PM

More like 3 seconds.

You can run a 5k in 3 seconds?

Almost, but meant that it likely took all of 3 seconds to find the last time the OP posted.

I know...I was just messing with you by deleting the post you were replying to.

2013-05-09 9:11 PM
in reply to: #4735895

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes
odpaul7 - 2013-05-09 10:03 PM 

actually the problem is the chafing :'(

priceless



2013-05-09 10:35 PM
in reply to: #2805431

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes

I believe a lot has to do with genetics.

I don't think you need to run more than 25-30 miles per week to get a 5k at 18 minutes. I've done one at 17:57. Tough as hell but I had someone that ran with me towards the end yelling at me to go faster when I wanted to give up.  I was averaging about 25 miles per week.

Within those 25 miles per week, I would do one day dedicated to speek work. Another day would be my longer run, and the other days would be regular run days where my effort wasn't super hard but not easy either.

As to maximum in a day I might of run 5 miles and that was during my speedwork since towards the end of my training I was getting up to 6x4 min interval sessions with active recovery.

So I would suggest to find a group to work with that does speed work. That worked for me and worked well.

2013-05-09 10:52 PM
in reply to: #2805431

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes

I don't think you can look at a number and say that it will get you under 18.  My 15 year old can run a sub 16:00 stand alone 5K and he doesn't run 25 miles per week....and he's fast, but not THAT fast among high schoolers who can run. (for instance, a sub 10:00 2 mile won't get him out of districts...2 steps away from the state meet)

On the other end of the specturm, some people can run 50 miles per week and never come close to a sub 18:00.

I'll be glad to start the argument.....genetics plays a bigger role than anything else.



Edited by Left Brain 2013-05-09 10:53 PM
2013-05-09 11:02 PM
in reply to: #4736015

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2013-05-09 11:09 PM
in reply to: #4736021

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes
jdl2012 - 2013-05-09 11:02 PM
Left Brain - 2013-05-09 10:52 PM

I'll be glad to start the argument.....genetics plays a bigger role than anything else.

Lol... I think I eluded to this when I said you married the right women!  Happy to see you came around!

But don't you think you can overcome some of this with improved form as you run?  Lots of people say go run 20 miles to improve speed, but if you repeat the same bad form... how can you expect anything more than improved endurance?

Ha!...and remember, I didn't get offended when you said it.....I'm fine with anything posted.

To your point, sure, you can get faster with better form and more training.  Can you, lacking genetic predisposition, run a 15:00 5K.....almost impossible.  Notice I said almost, although I would argue that even in those rare cases, there is a genetic marker somewhere that made it possible.

The fact is......when I say "genetics" I'm not talking about a 17:59 5k....in the running world that's just not that fast....so maybe you can get there without the predisposition.

2013-05-09 11:31 PM
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2013-05-10 6:21 AM
in reply to: #4736033

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes
jdl2012 - 2013-05-10 12:31 AM

 Last month, I ran a sub 20 minute 5k.  My genetics sucks but I only run 6 miles a week... at best... and a change in form helped me overcome the obstacles.

Form improvement or not, if you can run a sub 20 min 5K on 6 miles/wk, your genetics don't suck.  Wink 

Mark

2013-05-10 7:14 AM
in reply to: #2805431

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes
I'm currently in the mid 17:xx range for a 5k. That's been done by building a base over the past four years. I made some solid gains, from running a half marathon on virtually zero training in a shade over 2:00 to a 1:23 half marathon this past fall, and I'm hoping to be around 1:20 in a HM in two weeks. In that time period I've run three marathons, and qualified for Boston. My average mileage is currently in the 30-40 range, but last year I logged 2100+ miles while running two marathons. You definitely have to mix in some faster running and long runs in order to start running faster 5k's.

Edited by natethomas2000 2013-05-10 7:16 AM
2013-05-10 7:30 AM
in reply to: #4736021

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes
jdl2012 - 2013-05-10 1:02 AM

But don't you think you can overcome some of this with improved form as you run?


Improved run economy can help a little with endurance running performance but is a fairly small part of the equation. This is further complicated by the fact that there is no one correct form and most runners will gravitate toward their most economical form as they log more and more miles.

Lots of people say go run 20 miles to improve speed, but if you repeat the same bad form... how can you expect anything more than improved endurance?



Since all the distances we are talking about in triathlon (and this thread) are endurance events, improved endurance is what you want.

Shane

2013-05-10 12:41 PM
in reply to: #4736145

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes

natethomas2000 - 2013-05-10 6:14 AM I'm currently in the mid 17:xx range for a 5k. That's been done by building a base over the past four years. I made some solid gains, from running a half marathon on virtually zero training in a shade over 2:00 to a 1:23 half marathon this past fall, and I'm hoping to be around 1:20 in a HM in two weeks. In that time period I've run three marathons, and qualified for Boston. My average mileage is currently in the 30-40 range, but last year I logged 2100+ miles while running two marathons. You definitely have to mix in some faster running and long runs in order to start running faster 5k's.

Eerily similar to my experience as well.  I've ran a best of mid 17 earlier this year with running around 30-40 mpw but last year I was logging a lot more mileage than that thanks to a couple marathon builds and striving to hit a BQ.  I've been putting a lot more intensity into my running as of late (not running anything longer than HIM/HM this year) and it feels like it's really paying off nicely in the speed department.  I've got an 8K tomorrow night that I'm looking forward to and I'm going to try my hardest to see if I can't nail a NY qualifying HM time at the end of the year.  



Edited by thebigb 2013-05-10 12:45 PM
2020-10-05 8:52 PM
in reply to: #2805431


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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes
It really depends on so many factors, your aerobic capacity and base being the most limiting factors. I am about 245 pounds and run 3-6 miles a week every for like 4 weeks then nothing for 3 weeks, my last 5km was 17:35. But you could be super fit (which I am far from fit) and run 30 hours a week and struggle to break 20min.


2020-10-06 12:17 PM
in reply to: Tttengn

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes

Wow, this is a double zombie thread.  Discussion in 2010, resurrected in 2013, and now randomly discussed again.  Kudos!

2020-10-06 1:51 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93


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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Wow, this is a double zombie thread.  Discussion in 2010, resurrected in 2013, and now randomly discussed again.  Kudos!

I wasn't on BT until 2015, but was trying to run a sub 18:00 5K from 2008 to 2014.  I was averaging 45 miles a week with peak weeks closer to 55 miles.  I got an 18:00:XX once and an 18:01 be never got under 18:00 flat.  So...I gave up on every running an 18:00 flat 5K again thinking I was too old to PR again at that distance.  I needed a break from running so I signed up for a local 70.3 and trained for it for 8 months.  My running volume dropped from 45 miles a week to about under 20 miles a week, but my total training time increased from 6 hours of pure running a week to 10 hours of Triathlon Training a week.  Two weeks after the Triathlon I race a 5K.  My legs were still sore from the 70.3 and I expected to do about a 20-21 minute 5K but I came in at 17:52.  So I never went back to 45 mile run weeks.  I have stuck with the Triathlon training.  My last 5K was in March of this year (all the other 5K's went virtual or we canceled altogether).  I did a 17:42 at that race. I am not as fast as I was 25 years ago, but I am faster than I ever thought I could be at this age a decade ago. 

2020-10-06 3:22 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Wow, this is a double zombie thread.  Discussion in 2010, resurrected in 2013, and now randomly discussed again.  Kudos!

I wasn't on BT until 2015, but was trying to run a sub 18:00 5K from 2008 to 2014.  I was averaging 45 miles a week with peak weeks closer to 55 miles.  I got an 18:00:XX once and an 18:01 be never got under 18:00 flat.  So...I gave up on every running an 18:00 flat 5K again thinking I was too old to PR again at that distance.  I needed a break from running so I signed up for a local 70.3 and trained for it for 8 months.  My running volume dropped from 45 miles a week to about under 20 miles a week, but my total training time increased from 6 hours of pure running a week to 10 hours of Triathlon Training a week.  Two weeks after the Triathlon I race a 5K.  My legs were still sore from the 70.3 and I expected to do about a 20-21 minute 5K but I came in at 17:52.  So I never went back to 45 mile run weeks.  I have stuck with the Triathlon training.  My last 5K was in March of this year (all the other 5K's went virtual or we canceled altogether).  I did a 17:42 at that race. I am not as fast as I was 25 years ago, but I am faster than I ever thought I could be at this age a decade ago. 

Like you, I had better success as a runner when running 20-25 mpw while tri training vs. 35+ miles a week just running.  And felt better, too.

2020-10-07 10:08 AM
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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Like you, I had better success as a runner when running 20-25 mpw while tri training vs. 35+ miles a week just running.  And felt better, too.

I ran as a Redshirt Freshman for one year in College.  Some of the guys were hitting 100 miles a week (I was half that).  Before I crossed over to triathlon I regretted never doing a 100 mpw training plan and was considering building up to that type of volume just to see what difference it would make.  Unless I take up 100-mile trail races like my brother started doing 2-3 years ago I will probably never hit a 100-mile week in my life.  I have found that it is more effective to build my aerobic endurance on the bike and to limit my long runs so I don't have as much pounding on my joins that take a long time to recover from.  My Ultra Marathoner brother tricked me into signing up to do a Marathon with him last year.  I tried doing a few of those over a decade ago and they were too long for me.  I didn't enjoy them and performed poorly.  Well...for the Marathon I did a year ago I decided to just do the training I already had planned for my 70.3 and just add 20% to my long runs.  That was it.  My average miles per week the three months leading up to the Marathon was in the 20-25 mile range.  My longest run was 18 miles.  I had a great marathon though.  It was the first marathon that I did without hitting a wall or having to go to a walk-jog-walk the last few miles.  So...the cross-training has worked for me and I will stick with it until I find something that works better.



Edited by BlueBoy26 2020-10-07 10:11 AM
2020-10-07 12:45 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes

My experience being around fast runners is that it's all relative.  The 18:00 barrier is an absolute walk for fast guys....and it is blazing fast for most recreational runners. 

As for training hours.....you can get to 18:00 on cross training and quality 25-35 mpw training....even less for genetically gifted folks.  You're not getting sub 15:00 without those 100 mile weeks, and many miles over a number of years.



2020-10-07 4:04 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes
So here's an apples/oranges question for the BT brain-trust: can your typical male AG'er who qualifies for Kona run an 18min 5K(stand alone)? All of the Kona candidates in my area seem to crush the field in OA when I see them at local sprints.
2020-10-08 12:38 PM
in reply to: alltom1


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Subject: RE: 5k in 18 minutes

Originally posted by alltom1 So here's an apples/oranges question for the BT brain-trust: can your typical male AG'er who qualifies for Kona run an 18min 5K(stand alone)? All of the Kona candidates in my area seem to crush the field in OA when I see them at local sprints.

If you can do a sub-10-hour Ironman then you probably can do a sub-18-min 5K. It is like LeftBrain said, 18 mins is walking for fast people.

 

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