Does it bug you.... (Page 2)

Risk a penalty for not clearly displaying their age or number?  I think penalties should be reserved for cheating or doing something dangerous in a race.  To keep the race safe and fair.  IMO, it doesn't hurt anything to not have your number displayed.  It's not going to make anyone finish faster.  They're nice to see but don't we all have bigger things to worry about in the middle of a race?

No!  this does not phase me at all.  And I have been knocked out of my AG award by seconds.  Bottom line, you give it your all.  If someone out kicks you by a second.  Well, his all is just a little bit more.

Maybe my background in a sport (ski racing) that is a race but can't be competed side by side with all of your competitors colors my view but if you put everything you've got out there it shouldn't matter if you know what age group they're.  I coach my athletes to put everything they've got into it then let the chips fall where they may.  If someone is passing you and you've got more to give then go for it.  If you don't then you did what you can. 

From your list, that's the only one that really bugs me. Yes we all race, we all should go as hard and possible all the time, etc. but is is a fact that competition can help you find that hidden extra gear under certain conditions that you weren't aware it was there even when you are already turning yourself inside out. That's the reason people tend to perform better in race-like conditions vs training (i.e. doing a 20max power test in your trainer vs going to the local 10 miler TT). In addition, for those chasing the podium at races with wave starts it gets trickier, hence knowing who is your competition can make a significant difference. (though I agree with others, during the last 200 mts I am prob already running at my max hence is someone passes me I might or might not be able to respond)

Not on your list, I really reaLLY REALLY hate drafters and wish the rules were more forcefully enforced and the penalties more severe (i.e. 15-20 min penalty 1st offense)

I just make sure I lead wire to wire so that this problem doesn't crop up...

Edited by sand101 2010-09-02 9:57 PM

I was running races before doing triathlon and I can honestly say that I think putting AG on the calf is kind of soft.  If you are racing to win, then race to win.  I actually race faster when I don't know what AG people are because every other woman in the race is a potential threat to my placement in my AG in in the female rankings.  If you are not racing against anyone but yourself, then it doesn't matter at all. 

As for race numbers, I feel a bit differently about them, although I think triathlon goes over board with markings.  But, it helps for photos, for announcers, and in some races, for folks planted along the way to make sure people don't cut the course short.  If the race director says you have to cross the finish line with your race number on, then that is what you should do.

I understand what you guys are saying....but you are forgetting about the reverse!

What if I don't HAVE to kill myself. That is what I'm talking about. As I mentioned earlier, I'm only going to go as fast as I need to win. If I don't have to go hard because I KNOW WHERE I STAND, then why would I?

THAT is why it bugs me. Information is vital and they're breaking the rules (if it is even a rule) is robbing me of information I can use to win a race...or get the next spot...whatever.

Everyone keeps saying they are going as hard as they can. Well, if I'm first out of the water, no one with a 35-39 passes me on the bike, and I look back with a mile or so to go on the run and no one is there...I'm on cruise control....I'm not pushing, why would I?

If I'm running someone down late in a race and get within a distance where I can see their leg and they are not in my division, I know I don't have to chase them....and conversely I would put it into death mode if they were in my division.

There are a TON of scenarios where knowing where your competition is at has many many advantages.

As for the number belt issue...it does take time to deal with a number belt. Some of you keep discounting this. Like I mentioned in my last post...I don't care if it's 1 second. If someone does something against the rules and it gives them an advantage ( regardless of time) I think they should be penalized.

I guarantee I would be faster through transition if I didn't have to deal or grab a number belt. I can run much faster not putting a number belt on than I can putting one on while running. It does make you finish faster.

This is exactly why I pin my number in short sprints that use wetsuits. That way I don't have to deal with the number belt in T2 making my transition faster. The amount of time is irrelevant...as in a race any amount of time is critical.

This shows just how much racing and your goals differ from individual to individual. Even if I was first overall, by a huge margin, I would still push as hard as I can to get to that finish line. I want to finish a race in as little time as possible, doesn't really matter much to me if that means I am first, or even DFL, I want to improve each time I race and that means pushing it to my limit all the time. No matter if that person in front of me is my AG competitor or not.

Wow. You learn something every day!

I've always known what they were, just never knew there was a real phrase for them!  


I agree with and understand the frustrations of the original poster, but no matter how competitive I get (AGer only), when the race, or day, or workout sucks, I tell myself,

"You're only racing yourself. Don't care about anything else."

And if I and others on this post have race numbers rub off just from racing, I'm sure there are many at every race. I usually just do my best to look at their age, then if all else fails do my best to guess their age mentally and go from there.

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On the OTHER hand, I completely agree with the OP. I understand everyone is doing what they can to win. But when "what they can" turns into "if you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin" it is a crock of BS.

 A race belt (race number), like mentioned before, is just another step in the always dreaded transition process required by the rules of every tri I've ever done, local or USAT run. Yes, it sucks to think about it and put it on and deal with it when you're trying to run. Rules cannot be broken (this is why it is a RULE and not a CHOICE). If I was in ANY tri and I noticed my race number fly off me (?) during a run, I would RUN backwards, pick it up, and move on. 

For the record, I have run the Big Sur Mud Run,  ~6 miles through mud, over walls, with HTH vs. Marines, and carried in my hand for 90% of the race because it "came off."

Following the rules ensures all the boxes are checked and the right person wins. 

Edited by TRI-ing soldier 2010-09-03 1:19 AM

I'm totally with the OP.  It's no different than having a cap on in the water.   As a FOP swimmer, I like to see where I stand in my start wave when I'm in the water.   If I was a FOP biker/runner...I'd want to know the same info.

bottom line: If the number on someone's body is going to effect the way I race, I left too much on the table and should be dissapointed in myself. Not whoever, is mis-marked. It's a "race". We should go all out. Period!

Actually, that IS the purpose from the view of the USAT.  Our Regional Director is fond of telling people - "You see, the hospital doesn't have a timing mat". 
I agree that often, calf markings come off - though I think it is more prevelant with arm markings and wetsuits - but maybe that is just my half-italian skin.  As an official, I don't worry a great deal about body markings if they look like they rubbed off naturally. 

Bibs are another story.  If everyone else took the 6 seconds to grab their bib and put it on, and you didn't, you deserve your penalty.  If you are willing to gain 6 seconds to risk 2 minutes (or more, depending on race length), you're a gambler.  Not a very good one, but.....

Race numbers are for the officials keeping track of the race, not great finishing photos.  How is an official going to officiate if he/she can't identify the participants.  What are they going to write down, "Some guy drafting - 15 seconds"?
Triathlon is age group divided, and many are racing to win AG spots, so it is important to know who is who on the course.  On the other hand, if you ease off the last 100 meters just because the person ahead is not in your AG, I think you're sand bagging.  Just my opinion, to each his own.

If someone barely passes you 100 yards and you know they are in your age group you may be able to summon that last little bit of guts and re-pass.  Sound like you and I are both not racing to win an age group but Fastyellow is.  If I was him/her it would bug me too.

But in this case, you don't know what their AG is until after they have passed you and if they understand running tactics at all, once they go by it is probably too late for you to respond.  In a situation like that, I would check over my shoulder and if anyone was coming up, do whatever I could to stay in front.

Shane

In the last 100 yards, I know if someone is behind me and if there is, I am pushing as hard as I can to stay in front regardless of whether they are in my AG.  Conversely, if I am within 100 yards and someone is in front of me, I am pushing as hard as I can to catch them regardless of their AG.

Shane

Why would you try hard when leading? I don't know. PR, pride, push yourself for when you race better competition.

Maybe its just me but I would ask why would I not push it. Regardless of anyone else.

Heck, I understand what he's saying.  Why in the world would you make yourself hurt more than was required? 

Been thinking about this one, some.  My question is - IF wearing the race number and markings are a rule.....and many of you are willing to overlook it.....what else are you willing to overlook?  Where do you draw the line?  Who (besides you) gets to draw that line?  Can they pick and choose which rules they think are silly?

I keep my race belt inside my cap, under my running shoes - in T2.  Takes me NO extra time to carry it out with me (in my hat).  BUT....I'm sure it costs me a second or 3 putting the belt on and positioning it, correctly.

If it's a rule - it's a rule.  Let's follow it.  If not, let's forget about it.

Because you and I have a different definition of what a race means to us.

All I want to do is win, on that day, against that days competition. That is my one and only goal. PR's mean nothing to me in a race....the goal is simple and precise.

If you have other reasons for racing...that's great. Like I mentioned Triathlons are fairly unique in that racers and participants can often have VERY different goals. All of which are just as valid.

BUT, we need to be respectful of other people's goals. To say, mandatory markings are not necessary because they do not matter to those who are just participating isn't really fair. Just because others say "you should be pushing the whole time anyway" doesn't mean you can throw out rules that seemingly don't affect you. Like Bibs and AG markings. 

Only because he said one day the overall win may be the objective.  Like you said, though, rules are rules.

Im the same way with individual races. Triathlon is unique in that, unless you are racing the same exact course, times dont compare. Im not going to be going for any course records or anything, so Id like to do as well as I can within my AG without going harder than I need to.

In the end, a rule is a rule. People should follow them regardless of whether or not an official is there to catch them.

This is a holdover from hs and college x-country, but my coaches would get really hacked at anyone that let ANYONE pass them in the last 1/4 mile. If he saw us getting passed and our heart wasn't exploding out of our chest, we were in trouble. :p

So, as a consequence, I bust my butt to not let anyone pass in the last stages of a race.

John

I can usually guess how old someone is, maybe +/- one age group.  Is it easier to just glance at what's written on their calf?  Sure.  But I have a pretty good idea even before I see that.

Agreed - The point about penalizing someone for this is actually kind of moot. The purpose of the numbers, I believe, is to be able to issue penalties correctly in the first place.
If I were an official hanging off the back of a motorcycle, I would want it to be easy to see whose number I am writing down for drafting.

The reason no number bugs me most is that it seems like a way to avoid getting penalized.  Some of our local races have stopped issuing numbers for the helmet and the bike and the run. They only have the chips and the body marking.