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Large increase in attack responses on here... (Page 4)
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  2011-01-27 10:35 AM in reply to: #3323637 |
 Subject: ...This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred Doucette 2011-01-27 10:38 AM |
| 2011-01-27 10:42 AM in reply to: #3322608 |
Pro 4723    CyFair | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... Wow. Having been on weight lifting boards my whole adult life I can honestly say that this is the "nicest" board I've ever been on. Actually kinda shocked this is an issue. |
| 2011-01-27 10:50 AM in reply to: #3324519 |
Extreme Veteran 454 Torrance/Carson | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... gsmacleod - 2011-01-27 8:25 AM Perhaps people get annoyed because they know that the creator and moderators of BT do not wish for people to be told to do a search. To me there's a big difference between saying "Do a search" and providing a list of links to previous threads about the topic. First of all, it says something about the attitude of the poster, as the person providing the links is doing all of the work for the original poster. Second it allows the original poster to check out what's been said before without feeling put down. Granted, it depends on how the person presents it to the original poster, but generally I've seen people providing links just trying to help. In my own experiences, I've found that newer posts tend to have less feedback than older ones on the same topic, which have been more comprehensive in their info. It could be because a lot of the info just gets filtered down, the people that would post in detail don't feel like posting on the topic anymore, etc. My own personal way of doing things is I search first and then post a new topic if I feel that what I'm looking for is inadequate. That being said, I don't mind repeat questions at all. I just find it funny when the same two questions are on the same page, which means that people prefer to post their own threads rather than contribute to existing ones. |
| 2011-01-27 10:51 AM in reply to: #3322608 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... Some of the basic questions like "Should I get a road or tri bike", "What will an aero wheel provide", get asked over and over A proper response with accurate details can be quite long to write up and the effort non negligeable. After a while, the people able to provide accurate responses get fed up and stop responding. Then you start getting lesser quality responses and even misinformation. I am sure there are several, very knowledgeable people that have said to themselves "I am fed up of answering that question 100 times". You get dozens of threads, on the same subject. The person that tries use the search gets search results overflow, so simply asks the question again and the loop continues Maybe "sticky threads" on the most common topics, rating of threads to make searching easier are all ways of getting easy to find, high quality content. As far as taking shots at the other forum, I have always found people there helpful and knowledgeable, just like here. Personally I have found the info sometimes even more credible, because when someone posts BS, they get piled on pretty quick. But every question I have asked has been respectfully answered including "you could have done a better search but here is the answer". I think in the internet world you do need to be a little thicker skinned. I think polite but sometimes critical responses just help to sanitize the data being posted. |
| 2011-01-27 10:59 AM in reply to: #3324529 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... Kido - 2011-01-27 11:29 AM
That's how I count time on the treadmill or trainer; when I see the same stories coming around again I know it's been an hour. |
| 2011-01-27 11:24 AM in reply to: #3324591 |
| Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... tophermcdougall - 2011-01-27 11:50 AM gsmacleod - 2011-01-27 8:25 AM Perhaps people get annoyed because they know that the creator and moderators of BT do not wish for people to be told to do a search. To me there's a big difference between saying "Do a search" and providing a list of links to previous threads about the topic. First of all, it says something about the attitude of the poster, as the person providing the links is doing all of the work for the original poster. Second it allows the original poster to check out what's been said before without feeling put down. Granted, it depends on how the person presents it to the original poster, but generally I've seen people providing links just trying to help. In my own experiences, I've found that newer posts tend to have less feedback than older ones on the same topic, which have been more comprehensive in their info. It could be because a lot of the info just gets filtered down, the people that would post in detail don't feel like posting on the topic anymore, etc. My own personal way of doing things is I search first and then post a new topic if I feel that what I'm looking for is inadequate. That being said, I don't mind repeat questions at all. I just find it funny when the same two questions are on the same page, which means that people prefer to post their own threads rather than contribute to existing ones. This is what I was thinking too. A lot of it's in the delivery, and the poster's intent. Just saying "Do a search" is going to be off-putting to a new user. Posting a link to past threads that covered the same topic can be helpful, because it cross references threads, which adds to the information that the OP needs, plus, it might encourage a new user to learn more about how the site functions. Doing the latter with a note mentioning that there's a lot of good and relevant information in the old thread is more likely to be received positively, where the former is more likely to intimidate a newbie. I also find myself wondering what people are smoking when I see two nearly identical posts on the first page. Why reinvent the wheel, instead of joining the first conversation? Though, I do think it is more amusing than annoying. |
| 2011-01-27 12:20 PM in reply to: #3322608 |
| Veteran 416 Denver | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... RookieIM - 2011-01-26 10:33 AM Or is it just me? I've only been on these forums for a month or so, and one of the things I liked so much about it was everyone was so civil towards one another. Even when people disagreed the discourse was always pleasant. So unlike any other internet forum I've ever seen. With the anonymity of the internet, people tend to be a lot "tougher" and flat out mean than they would ever be in person. But I've noticed over the past couple days a lot of attack threads, ridiculing people for one thing or another. The thread about the runners going the wrong way generated a lot of nasty responses, then the one today bout "not being a real cyclist" if you want to go to a spin class. I never noticed that before...or maybe it's just me. It's not just you. I was thinking the same thing, to myself, a couple days ago. I just chalked it up to Cabin Fever. Edited by Dino019 2011-01-27 12:23 PM |
| 2011-01-27 1:00 PM in reply to: #3324592 |
| Master 1366 PNW | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... marcag - 2011-01-27 8:51 AM Some of the basic questions like "Should I get a road or tri bike", "What will an aero wheel provide", get asked over and over A proper response with accurate details can be quite long to write up and the effort non negligeable. After a while, the people able to provide accurate responses get fed up and stop responding. Then you start getting lesser quality responses and even misinformation. I am sure there are several, very knowledgeable people that have said to themselves "I am fed up of answering that question 100 times". You get dozens of threads, on the same subject. The person that tries use the search gets search results overflow, so simply asks the question again and the loop continues Maybe "sticky threads" on the most common topics, rating of threads to make searching easier are all ways of getting easy to find, high quality content. As far as taking shots at the other forum, I have always found people there helpful and knowledgeable, just like here. Personally I have found the info sometimes even more credible, because when someone posts BS, they get piled on pretty quick. But every question I have asked has been respectfully answered including "you could have done a better search but here is the answer". I think in the internet world you do need to be a little thicker skinned. I think polite but sometimes critical responses just help to sanitize the data being posted. This can be very helpful. The 'I get tired of the same questions coming up over and over again' is exceedingly common on internet forums. I've seen it on cycling forums, on weight loss forums, on weight lifting forums, on cooking forums, on wedding forums, etc. It's part of the internet forum dynamic, period. Complaining about it is just silly. That said, in a couple of forums that I frequent, the most helpful/technical threads are often either 'stickied' or archived somewhere for easy reference. On a cycling forum I belong to, the 'most hated/loved saddles' thread is incredibly helpful and easily referenced. The best part is that it is still open for posts even years after it's creation - so while the thread is easy to find and SUPER long, it also includes very recent information (and not just posts from 6 years ago about saddles that are no longer available). It has cut down on the 'what saddle is best for a big butt' questions very successfully. We could have the same type of set up for the 'tri vs road bike' question, or the 'which wheels for me' question or whatever. I do think that questions like 'what to wear for my first tri' are ones that should not have a special thread. No one needs an triathlon expert to answer these types of questions and as a newbie, you probably would like to hear more from people like you than people like the elites anyway. |
| 2011-01-27 1:04 PM in reply to: #3322608 |
| Extreme Veteran 574 Southwestern Ontario | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... I quite like Marc's idea too re: sticky-noting the most frequently asked beginner questions. Kind of like a FAQs section. |
| 2011-01-27 1:12 PM in reply to: #3322608 |
| Elite 3140 | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... like most of you I have looked at many other forums related to tri as well as nothing to do with triathlons, and there are always repeated threads, so I do not know why this board is making a big deal about it. With that said maybe they should put a more thorough FAQ section for beginners, or make an advanced triathlete board so for those who want very little to do with beginners can steer clear and those who want to interact with beginners can stay. However as a poster said above if we only allow people to ask the question once the board will cease to exist because even though there are some new technological advances that come up so often to talk about it probably would not sustain a board for long......plus if you read a topic your tired of responding too just ignore it like junk mail |
| 2011-01-27 1:17 PM in reply to: #3325001 |
| Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... FELTGood - 2011-01-27 11:12 AM like most of you I have looked at many other forums related to tri as well as nothing to do with triathlons, and there are always repeated threads, so I do not know why this board is making a big deal about it. With that said maybe they should put a more thorough FAQ section for beginners, or make an advanced triathlete board so for those who want very little to do with beginners can steer clear and those who want to interact with beginners can stay. However as a poster said above if we only allow people to ask the question once the board will cease to exist because even though there are some new technological advances that come up so often to talk about it probably would not sustain a board for long......plus if you read a topic your tired of responding too just ignore it like junk mail This is just the semi monthly thread on the topic, people get up in arms about new questions, say they should search, a more comprehensive FAQ is proposed (which I don't think is a great idea because people still have individual questions). Another forum is proposed (that's what ST is for). Then people forget about it. Then 2 months later it comes up again (why can't these people search for that discussion??????) Ultimately, I agree with you and Ron, it's a beginner site. It's more welcoming to allow folks to ask those questions over again, as it integrates them into the BT community, as it were. If someone is really sick of reading about how to count laps, they don't have to open the thread. I really don't see why that's a problem. |
| 2011-01-27 1:17 PM in reply to: #3325001 |
Champion 10018 , Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... A lot of the true debates/questions, like tubular vs. clincher, have become articles. I know the BT Management have stated they stay away from a lot of stickied advice threads because the answers change each time and it's more useful to see a response given in the context of time that the most recent person asks it. Hope that makes sense... But I will leave that argument up to them. I would agree that there could very well be an FAQ forum, with threads that can still be replied to with more recent info. I get tired of typing the same stuff over and over again, for sure. And the funny thing is that sometimes I am wrong and sometimes I am right, depending on who else pops in
Edited by BikerGrrrl 2011-01-27 1:18 PM |
| 2011-01-27 1:17 PM in reply to: #3322608 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... Is this a new Thread About Something?  |
| 2011-01-27 1:19 PM in reply to: #3325016 |
| Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... BikerGrrrl - 2011-01-27 11:17 AM A lot of the true debates, like tubular vs. clincher, have become articles. I know the BT Management have stated they stay away from a lot of stickied advice threads because the answers change each time and it's more useful to see a response given in the context of time that the most recent person asks it. Hope that makes sense... But I will leave that argument up to them. I would agree that there could very well be an FAQ forum, with threads that can still be replied to with more recent info. I get tired of typing the same stuff over and over again, for sure. And the funny thing is that sometimes I am wrong and sometimes I am right, depending on who else pops in
Which begs the question..... why do you type it in again if you get tired of it? Certainly someone will chime in and answer the question if you don't. Not a challenge, just a curiosity since I don't get why people just don't ignore threads that annoy them |
| 2011-01-27 1:47 PM in reply to: #3322615 |
| Master 1325 Lake Oswego, OR | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... bryancd - 2011-01-26 9:36 AM Dude, why do you care?! What's your problem?! Yea. Bryan jumped all over my butt a couple of years ago. I don't think he's gotten worse. In fact I think he is down right soft on us BTers.
Edited by E=H2O 2011-01-27 1:51 PM |
| 2011-01-27 1:50 PM in reply to: #3325118 |
| Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... E=H2O - 2011-01-27 12:47 PM bryancd - 2011-01-26 9:36 AM Dude, why do you care?! What's your problem?! Yea. Brian jumped all over my butt a couple of years ago. I don't think he's gotten worse. In fact I think he is down right soft on us BTers.
Damn it! And it's BrYan, dumba@#!!!! |
| 2011-01-27 1:50 PM in reply to: #3324042 |
| Master 1325 Lake Oswego, OR | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... cam224 - 2011-01-27 4:22 AM Dave Luscan - 2011-01-26 8:03 PM Agreed!Ron - 2011-01-26 8:23 PM Just a note, I personally never like to see 'do a search' on this forum. That is a sure way to get a file started on you. (kidding!) Sure, searching can find troves of information - bad or good, but then that defeats the whole purpose of the forum. It's just my philosophy on how a forum should be and 'do a search' actually goes against the entire purpose of it. If you applied that logic to a new forum, there wouldn't ever be a forum to search...and the site would probably soon cease to exist. My thoughts exactly. Never search. Always ask anew. Searches are static. Threads are dynamic. Who knows what new data, studies, ideas, suggestions and results have accrued since the last time a question was asked.
X2 |
| 2011-01-27 1:53 PM in reply to: #3322608 |
| Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... Besides, all my attack posts get pulled by Marmadaddy who then sends me a PM telling me to take a Midol or go for a run or something... |
| 2011-01-27 1:55 PM in reply to: #3325028 |
| Champion 10018 , Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... Because my fatigue is overwhelmed by my desire to share the information, I guess. Other times I do ignore them. ChrisM - 2011-01-27 1:19 PM BikerGrrrl - 2011-01-27 11:17 AM ...I would agree that there could very well be an FAQ forum, with threads that can still be replied to with more recent info. I get tired of typing the same stuff over and over again, for sure. And the funny thing is that sometimes I am wrong and sometimes I am right, depending on who else pops in
Which begs the question..... why do you type it in again if you get tired of it? Certainly someone will chime in and answer the question if you don't. Not a challenge, just a curiosity since I don't get why people just don't ignore threads that annoy them Thinking more about this, and the responses posted most recently, I want to ask this question: Why can't we encourage searching to find the old threads, user reads and learns, then posts new question if it hasn't been answered? Because really, some of the stuff isn't that complicate or newly discovered. Or, even reply to an old thread and say "I questioned this and like the idea of X, does anyone have an update?" Seems to me like there could be a compromise. Edited by BikerGrrrl 2011-01-27 2:03 PM |
| 2011-01-27 1:58 PM in reply to: #3325130 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2011-01-27 2:01 PM in reply to: #3325118 |
| Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... E=H2O - 2011-01-28 2:47 AM bryancd - 2011-01-26 9:36 AM Dude, why do you care?! What's your problem?! Yea. Bryan jumped all over my butt a couple of years ago. I don't think he's gotten worse. In fact I think he is down right soft on us BTers.
I wish Bryan would jump all over my bu...... oh, sorry, wrong forum. Back to CoJ I go. I dig this place. I dig the millionth question on the same topic. I dig that we can disagree politely. I dig the little spats sometimes I dig that the truly annoying and unrepentant usually go away or are 'encouraged' to. I love answering 'Introduce Yourself' threads and although yes, it's pretty much the same thing hundreds of times over, I have never resorted to a copy and paste response. Not to any thread on here. I think I am safe in saying I have replied to more than most |
| 2011-01-27 2:02 PM in reply to: #3325154 |
| Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... Fred Doucette - 2011-01-27 12:58 PM bryancd - 2011-01-27 2:50 PM E=H2O - 2011-01-27 12:47 PM Damn it! And it's BrYan, dumba@#!!!! bryancd - 2011-01-26 9:36 AM Dude, why do you care?! What's your problem?! Yea. Brian jumped all over my butt a couple of years ago. I don't think he's gotten worse. In fact I think he is down right soft on us BTers.
Whatever Brien. ..speaking of experienced people who don't post enough anymore...Fled...  |
| 2011-01-27 2:02 PM in reply to: #3325162 |
| Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... TriAya - 2011-01-27 1:01 PM E=H2O - 2011-01-28 2:47 AM bryancd - 2011-01-26 9:36 AM Dude, why do you care?! What's your problem?! Yea. Bryan jumped all over my butt a couple of years ago. I don't think he's gotten worse. In fact I think he is down right soft on us BTers.
I wish Bryan would jump all over my bu...... oh, sorry, wrong forum. Back to CoJ I go. I dig this place. I dig the millionth question on the same topic. I dig that we can disagree politely. I dig the little spats sometimes I dig that the truly annoying and unrepentant usually go away or are 'encouraged' to. I love answering 'Introduce Yourself' threads and although yes, it's pretty much the same thing hundreds of times over, I have never resorted to a copy and paste response. Not to any thread on here. I think I am safe in saying I have replied to more than most MELLON PRESS!!!!!! |
| 2011-01-27 2:03 PM in reply to: #3325138 |
| Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... BikerGrrrl - 2011-01-27 3:55 PM Thinking more about this, and the responses posted most recently, I want to ask this question: Why can we encourage searching to find the old threads, user reads and learns, then posts new question if it hasn't been answered? Because really, some of the stuff isn't that complicate or newly discovered. Or, even reply to an old thread and say "I questioned this and like the idea of X, does anyone have an update?" Seems to me like there could be a compromise. While there are several reasons that I can think of, the biggest is that encouraging someone to search as opposed to asking a question, kills discussion. I have been involved with a few message boards that were very active, then as users were encouraged to search and find their answers and only post if they found nothing, conversation dwindled. From hundreds of posts a day to less than ten in one case. If you want an active discussion board, then you need people constantly starting threads, even when it is a rehash of an old question. Also, the knowledge base here has grown considerably over the past several years and asking a question today may have a slightly different response than a year ago and probably a very different response than five years ago. Shane |
| 2011-01-27 2:05 PM in reply to: #3325138 |
| Subject: RE: Large increase in attack responses on here... BikerGrrrl - 2011-01-27 11:55 AM Because my fatigue is overwhelmed by my desire to share the information, I guess. Other times I do ignore them. ChrisM - 2011-01-27 1:19 PM BikerGrrrl - 2011-01-27 11:17 AM ...I would agree that there could very well be an FAQ forum, with threads that can still be replied to with more recent info. I get tired of typing the same stuff over and over again, for sure. And the funny thing is that sometimes I am wrong and sometimes I am right, depending on who else pops in
Which begs the question..... why do you type it in again if you get tired of it? Certainly someone will chime in and answer the question if you don't. Not a challenge, just a curiosity since I don't get why people just don't ignore threads that annoy them Thinking more about this, and the responses posted most recently, I want to ask this question: Why can we encourage searching to find the old threads, user reads and learns, then posts new question if it hasn't been answered? Because really, some of the stuff isn't that complicate or newly discovered. Or, even reply to an old thread and say "I questioned this and like the idea of X, does anyone have an update?" Seems to me like there could be a compromise. Just my personal opinion, of course, but if a newish user comes in and says, "how do I count laps?" it's much friendlier and welcoming (which is the environment Ron and Mike want to foster) to say "well I do it like X," than to say, "why don't you search the forums and come back with additional questions." Plus, they may not know what to search for. The results that come up may be overwhelming. Honestly, the "search" function here isn't very good. You can search for a word, and it will bring up a thread that has maybe 10 pages, with no clue as to where the word pops up. At any rate, I don't find it too difficult to just avoid the "road v. tri bike" or "should I strength train" or "which IM should I do" threads. |
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