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2013-09-06 1:15 PM

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Subject: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?

What more will it take? Socially liberal, limited government, the end to endless military engagements all over the world, financially sustainable budgets... What exactly is wrong with that?

Unfortunately... the Libertarian party is a catch all for anything that is not a (R) or (D)... which includes a bunch of wacky tin foil hat wearing anti-government folks. That's sort of a problem. What would be awesome is that the Libertarian party ranks tripled and then the kooky people would not seem so prevalent. Laughing

 

And finally ... I have been registered independent since I registered to vote... but this year I registered Libertarian. Tired of trying to explain it... it is what I am. Now if only Gary Johnson would come clean. Tongue out



Edited by powerman 2013-09-06 1:16 PM


2013-09-06 1:23 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?

I hate to say never, but I don't see anytime soon.

I feel most Americans consume what's put in front of them.  That's the R and D's.  Unless the other parties starts making more of a marketing presence, it won't happen.  Yep, MARKETING.  They need to sell it.  Make a presence and be on TV/Radio/Media.  A Libertarian reality TV show?

More most, thinking beyond what's spoon fed them is too difficult/much effort/time consuming.  Even THEN with what?  A 30% voter turnout?  Most don't care regardless, it seems.

 

PS - Broncos Rule



Edited by Kido 2013-09-06 1:23 PM
2013-09-06 1:30 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Originally posted by Kido

I hate to say never, but I don't see anytime soon.

I feel most Americans consume what's put in front of them.  That's the R and D's.  Unless the other parties starts making more of a marketing presence, it won't happen.  Yep, MARKETING.  They need to sell it.  Make a presence and be on TV/Radio/Media.  A Libertarian reality TV show?

More most, thinking beyond what's spoon fed them is too difficult/much effort/time consuming.  Even THEN with what?  A 30% voter turnout?  Most don't care regardless, it seems.

 

PS - Broncos Rule

So then.... in that vein, what do you think it would take for the parties to become more Libertarian? That say a fundamental shift in the voting public against the staus quo leads to scaling back the federal government and it's activities?

 

And yes... they DO!!!



Edited by powerman 2013-09-06 1:31 PM
2013-09-06 1:31 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?

WoW!

That was fast.  Ask (?) and ye (me?) shall receive. 

If the political landscape were devoid of the outside, monetary...pressures. A Liberitarian movement may, MAY just work.  But, unfortunately it takes $$$ to get the message out to the masses.  And then the 'purity' of their ideas become tainted by the folks writing the checks.  IMO.

2013-09-06 1:34 PM
in reply to: jeffnboise

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Originally posted by jeffnboise

WoW!

That was fast.  Ask (?) and ye (me?) shall receive. 

If the political landscape were devoid of the outside, monetary...pressures. A Liberitarian movement may, MAY just work.  But, unfortunately it takes $$$ to get the message out to the masses.  And then the 'purity' of their ideas become tainted by the folks writing the checks.  IMO.

I agree... it's a looser for all the money out there available to buy politicians. You basically are running on a platform of doing nothing for nobody... so to speak. Not real attractive to those buying our politicians... and let's be real, Rs and Ds are bought and paid for.

2013-09-06 1:54 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
I apologize for possibly hijacking this thread but this reminds me of something my husband and I were talking about a few days ago.

How does it work in the USA with registering with a party? When does this happen and how? and why? Are you born in to a party? What if you don't pick one? i guess then you are independent? Do "they" assume you are going to vote the party lines come election time? We assume you don't have to commit to voting for them once behind the curtain.

I know I could google this but asking real people is more fun.

Karen
A Curious Canadian


2013-09-06 2:01 PM
in reply to: purestone

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?

It doesn't really mean anything. I think in some states it does mean something to the primaries... you can't vote in Republican primaries to choose a candidate if you are a Democrat.

Other than that, you can change your affiliation when ever you want. It's through a states registrar. And yes, you can vote for who ever you want in a general election regardless of your affiliation. There are actually a lot of parties out there, but after Libertarian... ya.. pretty much gnats on the political land scape. Libertarians are only flys.

2013-09-06 2:12 PM
in reply to: purestone

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?

Originally posted by purestone I apologize for possibly hijacking this thread but this reminds me of something my husband and I were talking about a few days ago. How does it work in the USA with registering with a party? When does this happen and how? and why? Are you born in to a party? What if you don't pick one? i guess then you are independent? Do "they" assume you are going to vote the party lines come election time? We assume you don't have to commit to voting for them once behind the curtain. I know I could google this but asking real people is more fun. Karen A Curious Canadian

Speaking only for myself; My father was a "D" politician while I was growing up, so alot of my childhood was spent in coffee shops and diners watching my dad field questions and sway public opinion.  And he was a PRO!  So, like most sons, I wanted to emulate my father. His beliefs became MY beliefs.  As I approached voting age (18 in US), my own world views began to have more of an influence on my D or R status.  Sadly, the US politcal system is largely an "ALL IN" system. You declare yourself a D or R, you get solicited from groups friendly to the Ds or Rs and peer pressure/BT forums encourage you to argue the 'rightness' of your political party.  Soon you're a tired old man, who is content to swallow the bitter taste of disappointment in 'your' political party while you hammer away relentlessly at the foolishness on the other guys party....Oops...was that my "Out Loud" voice.  lol

But you're correct-once the curtain closes on election day, you can vote for WHOMEVER you choose.

2013-09-06 2:20 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Originally posted by powerman
the end to endless military engagements all over the world


The isolationist standpoint is my beef with libertarian foreign policy.
2013-09-06 2:58 PM
in reply to: ScudRunner

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-06/poland-confiscates-half-pr...


As soon as something like this happens in our country.
2013-09-06 3:01 PM
in reply to: purestone

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?

Originally posted by purestone I apologize for possibly hijacking this thread but this reminds me of something my husband and I were talking about a few days ago. How does it work in the USA with registering with a party? When does this happen and how? and why? Are you born in to a party? What if you don't pick one? i guess then you are independent? Do "they" assume you are going to vote the party lines come election time? We assume you don't have to commit to voting for them once behind the curtain. I know I could google this but asking real people is more fun. Karen A Curious Canadian

As was mentioned the process of picking a party is nothing more than checking a box when you register to vote.  In some places they let you write in a party so you see fun things like the Pirate Party and such.

I grew up in a fairly apolitical family that wasn't involved in politics at all and I'm pretty sure neither of my parents ever voted.  The first time I voted was in a presidential election and I registered as a Republican, but I think it was because I was from Iowa and we had a Republican Governor.  Basically no thought went into it at all.  I ended up voting for Bill Clinton who was a democrat though because I thought he was cool.  Yet again, no thought going into it at all.  lol

We moved to a Chicago suburb in the late 90's and it's a very heavy democrat favored part of the state, so being a registered republican meant I got to vote in the republican primaries to decide which republican would represent the party in the election, but no matter what the guy/gal would get slaughtered in the general election due to it being a heavy democrat area.  So, I changed and registered as a democrat so I could have a vote for the more conservative democrats in the primaries.  Then in the general I'd still vote for the R, but mostly to help their already low self esteem. 

We moved to Nebraska 12 years ago and here it's just the opposite, it's a heavy republican state so I registered as a republican here.  I get to vote in the primaries to select the nominee for the party and that person generally always wins the general election. 

I have thought about registering as an independent or a libertarian, but if I did that I wouldn't be able to vote in the Republican primaries anymore.  So, I am still a registered republican, but I'm very much a libertarian at heart.

To throw even more confusion into the mix, not all states work the way I described above.  Many states allow any registered party to vote in the primaries so you get alternate parties coming in to try and nominate the weakest candidate. 



2013-09-06 3:16 PM
in reply to: ScudRunner

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Originally posted by ScudRunner
Originally posted by powermanthe end to endless military engagements all over the world
The isolationist standpoint is my beef with libertarian foreign policy.
So who should we invade next? We have enough nukes to blow up anyone a hundred times over. A Navy second to none. And an armed services that could never be defeated on north America. I think we're good.
2013-09-06 3:30 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Originally posted by powerman

What more will it take? Socially liberal, limited government, the end to endless military engagements all over the world, financially sustainable budgets... What exactly is wrong with that?

My only exception to your description is the socially liberal part.  I'm the furthest thing from socially liberal, but I'm just not authoritarian about my views.  I think I know what you're saying though because many of the socially liberal causes are to let people do what they want, but just clarifying. 

2013-09-06 3:37 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by powerman

What more will it take? Socially liberal, limited government, the end to endless military engagements all over the world, financially sustainable budgets... What exactly is wrong with that?

My only exception to your description is the socially liberal part.  I'm the furthest thing from socially liberal, but I'm just not authoritarian about my views.  I think I know what you're saying though because many of the socially liberal causes are to let people do what they want, but just clarifying. 




That's it, you're banned from the movement.
2013-09-06 3:38 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?

Originally posted by powerman
Originally posted by ScudRunner
Originally posted by powermanthe end to endless military engagements all over the world
The isolationist standpoint is my beef with libertarian foreign policy.
So who should we invade next? We have enough nukes to blow up anyone a hundred times over. A Navy second to none. And an armed services that could never be defeated on north America. I think we're good.

Go Navy!

I wouldn't say that it's an all or none "isolationist" conundrum.  Obviously we do care what's going on around the world, but we just don't need to be the worlds police.

2013-09-06 3:38 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by ScudRunner
Originally posted by powermanthe end to endless military engagements all over the world
The isolationist standpoint is my beef with libertarian foreign policy.
So who should we invade next? We have enough nukes to blow up anyone a hundred times over. A Navy second to none. And an armed services that could never be defeated on north America. I think we're good.


Who advocated invading anything? I take issue with isolationism, or retrenchment if you want to call it that, because it seems to be based on an outdated idea of "defense" that is ineffective against the threats in the world that are undeterred by our unparalleled conventional strength. Certainly I'm biased by what I do for a living, but there are some things that cannot be deterred, but only denied, disrupted, or delayed through relentless pursuit and pressure. That can't be done from North America.


2013-09-06 3:45 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by powerman

What more will it take? Socially liberal, limited government, the end to endless military engagements all over the world, financially sustainable budgets... What exactly is wrong with that?

My only exception to your description is the socially liberal part.  I'm the furthest thing from socially liberal, but I'm just not authoritarian about my views.  I think I know what you're saying though because many of the socially liberal causes are to let people do what they want, but just clarifying. 




I agree with you. Much of the socially liberal movement is authoritarian and dictates a shift in the responsibility of cost for personal social behavior to others.

As to the question, when will the Libertarian viewpoint become the dominate political ideology?......when there is a revolution. But I wouldn't plan on that in any of our lifetimes.
2013-09-06 4:06 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Too many want to mandate that you follow THEIR beliefs.
Too many others want the government to mandate and pay for THEIR pet projects.
Too many others want the government to give them things.

Too many government officials believe they know what's best and want to force you to live within their beliefs.

2013-09-06 5:11 PM
in reply to: DanielG

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Part of it is possibly, the name. "Libertarian"
2013-09-06 5:33 PM
in reply to: ScudRunner

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Originally posted by ScudRunner
Originally posted by powerman
Originally posted by ScudRunner
Originally posted by powermanthe end to endless military engagements all over the world
The isolationist standpoint is my beef with libertarian foreign policy.
So who should we invade next? We have enough nukes to blow up anyone a hundred times over. A Navy second to none. And an armed services that could never be defeated on north America. I think we're good.
Who advocated invading anything? I take issue with isolationism, or retrenchment if you want to call it that, because it seems to be based on an outdated idea of "defense" that is ineffective against the threats in the world that are undeterred by our unparalleled conventional strength. Certainly I'm biased by what I do for a living, but there are some things that cannot be deterred, but only denied, disrupted, or delayed through relentless pursuit and pressure. That can't be done from North America.
So then if your idea of defense is relentless pursuit and pressure across the globe of who ever we deem undesirable... Then ya, no thanks. You can keep it. I'm all down for peace through superior fire power... But we have that.. I don't care what you want to label it, but it is time to retire Globo Cop.
2013-09-06 5:33 PM
in reply to: ScudRunner

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Originally posted by ScudRunner
Originally posted by powerman
Originally posted by ScudRunner
Originally posted by powermanthe end to endless military engagements all over the world
The isolationist standpoint is my beef with libertarian foreign policy.
So who should we invade next? We have enough nukes to blow up anyone a hundred times over. A Navy second to none. And an armed services that could never be defeated on north America. I think we're good.
Who advocated invading anything? I take issue with isolationism, or retrenchment if you want to call it that, because it seems to be based on an outdated idea of "defense" that is ineffective against the threats in the world that are undeterred by our unparalleled conventional strength. Certainly I'm biased by what I do for a living, but there are some things that cannot be deterred, but only denied, disrupted, or delayed through relentless pursuit and pressure. That can't be done from North America.
So then if your idea of defense is relentless pursuit and pressure across the globe of who ever we deem undesirable... Then ya, no thanks. You can keep it. I'm all down for peace through superior fire power... But we have that.. I don't care what you want to label it, but it is time to retire Globo Cop.


2013-09-06 5:49 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?

Originally posted by powerman
Originally posted by ScudRunner
Originally posted by powerman
Originally posted by ScudRunner
Originally posted by powermanthe end to endless military engagements all over the world
The isolationist standpoint is my beef with libertarian foreign policy.
So who should we invade next? We have enough nukes to blow up anyone a hundred times over. A Navy second to none. And an armed services that could never be defeated on north America. I think we're good.
Who advocated invading anything? I take issue with isolationism, or retrenchment if you want to call it that, because it seems to be based on an outdated idea of "defense" that is ineffective against the threats in the world that are undeterred by our unparalleled conventional strength. Certainly I'm biased by what I do for a living, but there are some things that cannot be deterred, but only denied, disrupted, or delayed through relentless pursuit and pressure. That can't be done from North America.
So then if your idea of defense is relentless pursuit and pressure across the globe of who ever we deem undesirable... Then ya, no thanks. You can keep it. I'm all down for peace through superior fire power... But we have that.. I don't care what you want to label it, but it is time to retire Globo Cop.

2013-09-06 7:28 PM
in reply to: Jackemy1

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Originally posted by Jackemy1
Originally posted by tuwood
Originally posted by powerman

What more will it take? Socially liberal, limited government, the end to endless military engagements all over the world, financially sustainable budgets... What exactly is wrong with that?

My only exception to your description is the socially liberal part.  I'm the furthest thing from socially liberal, but I'm just not authoritarian about my views.  I think I know what you're saying though because many of the socially liberal causes are to let people do what they want, but just clarifying. 

I agree with you. Much of the socially liberal movement is authoritarian and dictates a shift in the responsibility of cost for personal social behavior to others. As to the question, when will the Libertarian viewpoint become the dominate political ideology?......when there is a revolution. But I wouldn't plan on that in any of our lifetimes.

I've thought the same. We need a "reset". Doubt I will see it.

2013-09-06 8:29 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?
Man.....where have all the Obama supporters run off to? 
2013-09-06 8:31 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: When will American's embrace Libertarian views?

Socially liberal, fiscally conservative!  I'm with you!  Where do I sign up?

I don't post all the time in COJ, but I know I've stated it in the past that by ideals I'm libertarian, but when it comes to reality, I end up voting republican most of the time because it's the lesser of the evils that has a snowballs's chance of being elected.

When the Libertarian Party finally positions itself to win a major election, I'll be the first in line.

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