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The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard?
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 2010-02-27 1:48 PM |
Champion  13323     Gold member |  Subject: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard?I want to further share my thoughts on how myself and the mods run BT...this is based off of a recent pm to me from another user. Initially I was just going to respond via pm, but the more we grow, the more new users don't know me or the mods and our 'culture' of how we started and what we are trying to do and maintain here. USER: "I understand your comments on Rick's thread. But, understand that the life cycle of a user on BT seems to be becoming finite. Many of the more seasoned posters with the most knowledge no longer post. I was thinking that within the last few weeks before all this came up. While I realize the obvious B in BT is beginner, it is the more seasoned amongst us (myself not included) who can answer more advanced questions that keep people like me coming back after 3 years. Rick, JonnyKay, Penn State, etc. If a sense of community and respectfulness is more important than seasoned racers with advanced knowledge, I'm just pointing out the B will be emphasized. It's your business model, but I would think keeping existing users is better and cheaper than scaring away new ones or finding new ones. People need to harden up a bit. But will notice at least 3 different posters on Rick's thread with a combined post number in the thousands are saying the don't even visit the forums. without them, the site is weaker. Just food for thought. The longer the Rick thing goes on, the more of a "rebellion" there will be. That's not good business." MY RESPONSE: But then a case can be made that what if a lot of these types of issues of borderline or over the border insulting - even deeply sarcastic behavior (the most frequent reason a warning is sent) is keeping a lot of people from even entering a discussion...newbie or new coaches? That can't even be quantified. Who likes sarcasm directed at them and does that encourage ANYTHING except more bitter banter? Have we been losing new users interest in the forums even before they post their first post? We are the biggest triathlon forum right now...maybe the question could be 'could we be even bigger if forum debate can be even more respectful?' If we err on the side of allowing veiled insults and sarcasm, and in many cases - not-so-veiled insults to even power users - which is the most frequent thing that triggers a warning or forum timeout...then we move closer to an ideal that my heart does not hold and is definitely NOT what has gotten us this far. On other forums across the net that are a lot more liberal in moderating and allow heated, insulting and sarcastic debate, one can even make the case that that forum is growth limited because of this as a few 'first posts' by new users are qualified that they are reluctant to post there when making their first post. If one person writes that, 100 people feel the same way and just don't even enter those otherwise good debates. I hesitate to refer to this strictly as a 'business' or 'business model'...as the first three-five years of the site having a forum, there wasn't any and I operate back then as I do now. I would rather think of myself as a 'caretaker' or 'custodian' and I have tried to maintain my same 'views' on these subject of proper forum conduct as I did back then...which I think is one of the testaments to the success of the site thus far...as once you start thinking about the bottom line in whatever you do, one starts making decisions to further line your pocketbook and not necessarily benefiting your members. I was definitely pushed into my role on BT as a fulltime job...I definitely didn't groom the site in the early years to be what it is today. I gave up a great job job as a polymer chemist during which I almost finished my Masters degree - I love chemistry...I was deeply vested in my company and the great people that I worked with. My wife freaked out when I went to BT full time, giving up a stable job and years of education to paying for our own health insurance, mountain of debt partly due to funding the site in the early days and not stability. But I chose to be the 'site custodian' as there came a time where there wasn't enough time to do both...and I knew that any 'handoff' of my responsibilities back then would have been to the determent of the site and everything that I stood for. A recent article in Harvard Business Review 'The Age of Customer Capitalism' shares the view of decisions based on members versus pocketbooks..."The idea that the highest goal of corporations is to maximize shareholders wealth is deeply flawed. That goal is impossible to sustain, and it's time companies abandoned it and made customers their new priority." I have always done that in how the forum is moderated and to our customer service. The way we moderate the forums is more of a long-term investment...current shareholders (me, mike, etc) be damned for the short term...we want long-term sustainability...a lifestyle unlike most 'companies'. This site has never been about lining pocketbooks (my mortgage is $110k when we got it 10 years ago, we have one car - a minivan, I live farther within my means than most) its about great forums where people WANT to come out and discuss our sport without getting caught up in a heated debate where a few people try too hard time-after-time to justify their positions and bitter sarcasm/insults result. Nothing is really benefited at this point, people start ignoring the thread and purposefully ignoring the threads that the people post in. Sure it's great info...but when the passion gets over the top...well... From some input on the users you mentioned above - as I have been doing much soulsearching, a case can EVEN be made for more moderation in tritalk and some other popular subforums as you are right, a few of those people don't post as much as they did due to 'reasons' that don't have anything to do with the moderation, but how a discussion gets heated and the conduct between members. Here is a quote from one of your aforementioned users you mention that doesn't post anymore: "It seems that too many times a discussion gets brought down by people trying to insist who's right and who's wrong... which leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth." - this IS the reason for not contributing - not because we are losing valuable posters with which to get info from. So a case can validly be made that we SHOULD moderate more...not necessarily banning people or with more pm's as that gets annoying...but just perhaps better 'guiding' debates that are getting a little too passionate. If we can provide more guidance in heated debates, sure, we may lose a few posters with otherwise good info as they won't like to be 'throttled back', it may end up the mods working more (sorry mods), but I think we could gain 5 more as they will WANT to be part of respectful debate. And 'throttled back' isn't even a good term...think of it as 'throttling back' the emotion you put into your response - not changing who you are or your fundamentals...you will come out gaining even more followers and getting a lot more respect that way. Though your points can definitely be considered valid to. It would be great to be able to test a variety of levels of moderation, statistically, and see what version of BT is best...but no...my gut says to work on the community and respectfulness rather than whats good for the short term revenue. Unfortunately we have but one test tube. Who knows, maybe your future-telling will be what ultimately happens to BT - after all, it is the internet and we tend to lose a lot of respect when we post - being anoymous posters who have never met. We may be trying to fight an ever losing battle in trying to continue the currently most popular triathlon board with ever higher principles when debating - while even growing our active members. In the meantime, I will try and perhaps die fighting trying to improve and perpetuate the high standards that we have for forum debate. The BT forums are doing good right now considering the economy and the people that may not be getting into this sport right now...but can they be improved? Can we hold ourselves to an even higher posting standard when debating? I most certainly think so as it's not that hard to do, it's just making a conscious effort. It's about making this a greater place and growing the sport you love. It's about thinking of the big picture and why you came and became active at BT in the first place...to be part of something special that many internet sites just don't have. It's about perpetuating that feeling in everything we do here. |
| 2010-02-27 2:32 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
Veteran 281  Richmond VA area | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? Ron, |
| 2010-02-27 6:00 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
Master 1963 | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? In my humble opinion... I appreciate you opening the discussion to the forum. It's always nice to know that someone is listening out there to the concerns. My position comes as someone who's been on BT for a while (not forever but a while), someone who's benefited from the collective knowledge, and as someone who participates in a variety of forums on the internet relating to my different hobbies. First of all, I feel compelled to address the need and value for experienced people on a forum. There is, unequivocally, a need to have experienced people on any forum. The experienced hands are the ones that, in a lot ways, make the magic, meaning getting people's questions answered. These are the people that have the knowledge that makes a forum go around and around. Questions without answers leaves a lot to be desired. These people should be respected for the time they spend answering posts, often times repetitively. There is also, unequivocally, a need to allow for new blood to enter a forum. Naturally, these beginners are the experienced users of tomorrow. They need to be nurtured and supported and deserve to be treated with respect and civility. After all, a forum with only beginners is all questions and a forum with only advanced folks is all answers. The original question and your response seem to imply that it's not possible for experienced people, beginners, and civility to co-exist. I disagree with that. I think it's possible for both to exist with a few comments. First of all, experienced folks need to realize that at the end of the day they are just another opinion on an internet forum. They are not Kings and they can be wrong. Beginners need to realize that there are some people that know more, that some topics have been covered to death, and that respecting your forum elders is not a bad thing. In my opinion, both sides have some hardening up to do. As with anything, this leaves the mods in the middle. As far as the current state of BT, I agree that more seasoned people are hard to find on BT (and seemingly are scarcer in recent months). I've also noticed that in many of the tri talk threads it's consistently the same 10-12 people that are taking the time to answer questions (again often quite repetitively). I feel as though there used to be more but that they have stopped posting for whatever reason. Meanwhile, there are lots of people with post counts that are high enough to make you dizzy that basically never answered any tri questions and rarely visit tri talk, and after checking their statistics you find that less than the LARGE majority of the posts are in COJ. I don't think that's appropriate. I think post count should reflect one's contribution to the knowledge of the forum, not posting all day long in TAN threads. I'm all for lasting friendships and chatting it up, but it shouldn't count towards one's post count. This post count thing is a huge deal for me. Whether one thinks it makes sense or not, post count is an important way to gauge one's seniority here on BT (and on any forum for that matter). I appreciate your post for the positive environment you want BT to be (and in my opinion in large part IS) but I don't think we, as a community, should ignore the fact that it does seem as though experienced triathletes are harder and harder to find here on BT. As far as your investment strategy into the forum (as you discussed), what I'm saying is you should have a balanced portfolio not one that heavily invests in just one group. Now, if I were to make some concrete suggestions: 1) Remove COJ posts from counting towards one's post count 2) Create a separate forum where more contentious debate can be had, with less (if any) moderation. Make it clear that's what the forum is for. If folks want to duke out, that's fine, let's have a ring where they can do it. This has worked quite well another forum I'm on. People are still expected not to insult one another but STRONG opinions are welcome 3) Utilize more stickies with frequently asked questions, links to very popular threads. This will help alleviate some of the repetitiveness of the questions. People can still ask but there's nothing wrong with having the stickies and making the forum search more prominent. If someone finds their answer that way great, if not they can ask. Either way. 4) Be more consistent with moderation. If insulting someone else is not going to be allowed (and it shouldn't) then it should never be allowed. This goes both ways newbies -> old hands and old hands -> newbies. 5) Allow more than 30 minutes for editing of posts. If people can edit their old posts there's a better chance for self-moderation or moderation by the forum rather than by a mod when needed. Thanks for your time, take it for what it's worth. Edited by merlin2375 2010-02-27 6:07 PM |
| 2010-02-27 7:30 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Expert 950 Ann Arbor | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? I've been a member on several other very large internet forums, but never have I ever encountered a forum with such respect at the BT forum. In regards to opinions that veteran members are where the real worth of a community is at, I think veteran members are no more valuable than new members. Forums, especially highly informative forums such as the BT forums, are mostly fueled by fresh members. Each day, new members as well as veteran members learn something new about triathlon. Whether it be because a new member posted a question and received several answers, or because a veteran answered a question and learned something new about their own triathlon philosophy or strategy. Without a welcoming environment, BT wouldn't have such a high amount of members joining. A community that is solely full of veteran members that have all the answers it pointless. For that reason, I have never had the urge to register for a ST forum account(I do find their articles on products, fits, etc, to be very informative). ST may have more experienced members with more answers, but I just don't see it as a friendlier community that even compares to BT. Not moderating in order to keep older members around seems completely counterproductive to the BT purpose. In a way, it's almost putting the interest of veterans before the good of the entire community as a whole. An elitist community is not very welcoming to new members. Keep up the good work, Ron. |
| 2010-02-27 10:18 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
Expert 1456 Central New Jersey | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? Ron (and all mods) The job you do is far under appreciated and probably takes a lot grief when you do have to "enforce" the rules. I don't know if 5 years as a triathlete still qualifies me as a "Beginner" but I do know that you're right, there have been plenty of opportunities that I COULD have responded to but didn't for "fear" of the backlash I would take for my views if they were contrary to a "popular" poster. Not that we shouldn't have those too, but I have seen plenty of instances where someone offers a different opinion (not necessarily right or wrong) and they get reprimanded by those who "agree" with someone else's position. While overall there is a great deal of respect on BT and between the posters, when there is not, it turns ugly quickly. If I have a question I should feel free to post it, not worry that the response will be "didn't you search for the answer" and if I offer an opinion, it's that, MY opinion, just because I am less experienced or haven't podiumed (is that a word?) or been a coach for more than a year, does not mean that I don't know what I am posting about. Do some post when they don't, sure, but that is how we learn. Keep doing the job you're doing, and know that it is appreciated. Lani |
| 2010-02-27 10:35 PM in reply to: #2697581 |
Master 2484 St. Louis | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? wwlani - 2010-02-27 10:18 PM Keep doing the job you're doing, and know that it is appreciated. x2 on appreciating the job you are doing. Plus, I might not have fully committed to doing my first try this year if it hadn't been for the support I received on this site. |
| 2010-02-27 10:49 PM in reply to: #2697581 |
| Expert 701 Boise | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? wwlani - 2010-02-27 10:18 PM Ron (and all mods) The job you do is far under appreciated and probably takes a lot grief when you do have to "enforce" the rules. I don't know if 5 years as a triathlete still qualifies me as a "Beginner" but I do know that you're right, there have been plenty of opportunities that I COULD have responded to but didn't for "fear" of the backlash I would take for my views if they were contrary to a "popular" poster. Not that we shouldn't have those too, but I have seen plenty of instances where someone offers a different opinion (not necessarily right or wrong) and they get reprimanded by those who "agree" with someone else's position. While overall there is a great deal of respect on BT and between the posters, when there is not, it turns ugly quickly. If I have a question I should feel free to post it, not worry that the response will be "didn't you search for the answer" and if I offer an opinion, it's that, MY opinion, just because I am less experienced or haven't podiumed (is that a word?) or been a coach for more than a year, does not mean that I don't know what I am posting about. Do some post when they don't, sure, but that is how we learn. Keep doing the job you're doing, and know that it is appreciated. Lani x1. As one of those often opposing opinions I often feel the exact same way. It can be really frustrating when things trend towards being personal attacks and put downs for your opinion and point of view. Edited by crazyquick23 2010-02-27 10:50 PM |
| 2010-02-28 6:55 AM in reply to: #2697049 |
Expert 2180 Boise, Idaho | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? To the entire BT Support Staff, I am so thankful for the knowledge and support I have received from this site. I have, and will continue to refer any and all multi-sport athletes here so that they may share in this incredible pool of experience. I agree that some members high post counts are due largely to their time spent in COJ, but I don't think this should be considered a "bad" thing. Lifestyle adjustments are a HUGH reason why the sport is so difficult-and many of the topics in COJ are addressing relationship issues or simply offering an "Atta Boy" to people who may be struggling emotionally and/or physically. If I hear a good idea, I don't care what the post count is of the person who suggested it. I've been enlightened by members with single-digit posts and shouted out loud in disagreement with members whose post count is in the thousands. I also agree that "What bike/goggle/wetsuit/saddle/tri suit/shoes etc...should I buy?" posts can be frustrating, but for the newer member who is looking to start contributing to the site-these are often the questions they feel most comfortable answering. And they should...without fear of scorn or Red text replies. BT aint for every triathlete...and every triathlete is not suitable for BT. But if we continue to operate in the forums as we should operate in life i.e. with a sense of courtesy, respect and self-depreciating humor, then I'm confident the group will thrive and continue to grow. Thanks again to the entire BT community. Rarely a day goes by that I don't stop by to say "hi". My mother should be so lucky. |
 2010-02-28 6:16 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by PennState 2010-02-28 6:19 PM |
| 2010-02-28 6:18 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2010-02-28 6:44 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? Good on 'ya Ron for opening this up for discussion. I agree 100% with everyting Fred said above, so i won't reiterate. All I would add is that I think, in my opinion, attempt to moderate tone and civility are impossible to do as they are so subjective. What may offend someone else likely won't offend me. As Mod's, I think you should err towards the later more and allow the community to work it out. let the insults happen, let people fight it out sometimes. Often they will resolve it. And I also agree with a previous poster, post in COJ should not count in your post count. I posted in there last week for the first time ever and I didn't know who 50% of those people were and this is a triathlon forum. Like or not, people will consider a persons post count in reading their posts, it's the nature of an online forum. |
| 2010-03-01 8:22 AM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Extreme Veteran 340 | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? I think the site and forums are great. You may have to search a bit sometimes, but the amount of info for people just getting into the sport is amazing. If the heated banter is an issue, my only thought is to perhaps create a separate forum for "Smack Talking" that is un-moderated and uncensored. You could even restrict it to paying clients so trolls don't come in all the time and start trouble. It could be a place to move the more heated debates and keep general forums PG. Anyway, I like the site and appreciate what you guys do. I will likely upgrade soon to a full membership. Thanks! |
| 2010-03-01 9:15 AM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Master 2210 Columbus, Ohio Coaching member | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? Thanks for all the hard work you do! Personal story: I used to belong to another tri forum, back around 2000-2004. I would ask questions, and people were kind, and I used the training plans there. I posted my race reports. We had inside jokes. I left triathlon for a few years to have babies. Around 2007 I wanted to get back into triathlon. I went right back to my old forum, with my seniority and post count still intact. I posted a question and immediately got a sarcastic, mean answer. That's when I came over here. So it can be a fragile thing, and people do have life cycles and they do go in and out. Some people might drift away because of personal reasons or life issues. But when they come back, if they find that this is the same kind forum it was before, they will re-engage, I believe. It shouldn't all be on you to maintain civility. When someone posts something like that, we all should step up and preserve the culture here. But even then, that doesn't take the bite out of logging in with anticipation to see an answer to your post, only to find something discouraging there. So the removal of comments has its place, too. IMHO. |
| 2010-03-01 9:27 AM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Elite 3088 Austin, TX Gold member | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? Ron, I don't think you or the mods could do a better job. The respect that you require in the threads here is what make people so likely to post even very basic questions. I can't understand the logic of relaxing those standards in order to keep veteran posters around. First, those standards have been in place for the life of the board. If someone stops posting, those standards are not the reason. People's interests are cyclical. Most people are eventually going to move on from the sport. Second, having some rotation in the 'old guard', if you will, is a good thing. I used to be a very active member of a motorcycle forum about 4 years ago. But it got to the point where there was a clique of users that were friends with the mods and they became very unwelcoming to anyone not in their clique. You want to keep the site from getting insular, particularly among the experienced users. Finally, if someone can't post a reply to a question or a response to an opinion without being insulting or condescending, I don't really care much about what their answer is, regardless of how much knowledge they have. I have no interest in putting up with an attitude from someone who happened to discover triathlons a few years before me or won the genetic lottery enough to be faster than I am. If you can answer my question, wonderful, but if you can't do it with a basic level of respect, then sit down and shut up. I also disagree completely with Bryan about letting people duke it out because they'll probably settle it in the forums. Newcomers reading through those threads are very likely to be put off or intimidated out of ever joining or posting. I don't think it's news to anyone that most people who are thinking about entering triathlons for the first time are VERY unsure of themselves. Looking through Tri Talk forum and seeing some of the very basic questions that are asked and answered quickly and courteously is what gives those newcomers the confidence to post their own questions, regardless of how ignorant they may sound. Ron and his team have built something exceptional here. I can go back and look at the first triathlon workout I ever did on August 7, 2004 along with every other workout I've logged since then and that data has never been lost. I can look at not just my times for my races, but my notes on the race. I can create more graphs of that data than I know what to do with. I can get training plans and even ask the coaches that wrote them questions if I have them. There's built in route mapping so I can have accurate training distances and record notes on particular routes. There are instructional videos and articles that are updated regularly. There is an incredibly welcoming and informative forum where I can find the answer to just about any question I could possibly have. I won't even get flamed too bad if I don't search the forums for the answer first. There's a ton of stuff available on top of all that. And most of that stuff is available for free. I do like the idea of having COJ posts not count towards post counts, or at least have 2 versions of the post count: one with and one without. The data is clearly available, since it's displayed on the user stats screen. |
| 2010-03-01 2:15 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Master 2158 | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? I have to say that in my limited experience with BT, I find that experienced triathletes do post a fair bit. I also want to point out that I think the moderators do a great job, and one of the reasons I reccomend BT is that it provides a very respectful and entertaining place to post and read. One side note-experience doesn't always mean knowledge. Knowledge and correctness are different things. Although people are good about posting references and such when offering advice, the fact is that there are many ways to be succsesful as an athlete and triathlete. I like the fact that people can disagree openly, but the moderators keep the hostility under wraps. As far as more experienced people not posting...people's interest and available time will go up and down. Maybe they found new places to post and don't spend time here anymore...maybe they had kids...maybe they don't want to share anymore. You can't know the reason in most cases. |
| 2010-03-01 2:21 PM in reply to: #2698578 |
| Pro 4054 yep, | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? bryancd - 2010-02-28 7:44 PM Good on 'ya Ron for opening this up for discussion. I agree 100% with everyting Fred said above, so i won't reiterate. All I would add is that I think, in my opinion, attempt to moderate tone and civility are impossible to do as they are so subjective. What may offend someone else likely won't offend me. As Mod's, I think you should err towards the later more and allow the community to work it out. let the insults happen, let people fight it out sometimes. Often they will resolve it. And I also agree with a previous poster, post in COJ should not count in your post count. I posted in there last week for the first time ever and I didn't know who 50% of those people were and this is a triathlon forum. Like or not, people will consider a persons post count in reading their posts, it's the nature of an online forum.
I'd like to say I agree with the bolded font. I also agree with Fred of stepping away from this site slightly since I started to become one of CoJ groupies. |
| 2010-03-01 2:39 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? Ron: Great post...thanks for caring enough to take the time to put it together. Compared to other forums I've been on, BT is a dream in terms of overall civility. Not perfect, but--IMO--no electronic communication ever will be. Thanks to you and the mods for generating and sustaining a high standard. Definitely the quintessential thankless job. Coming up on three years on the site--gotten from total newb to impending 2nd IM--I think I'd echo most everything Fred said...thoughtful stuff on his part and speaks for the fairly significant number of users who are experienced but not world-beaters...i.e., folks who collectively can respond to a ton of questions from beginners, as long as we don't feel beat up in the process. I know I get sucked into the veiled (or less-than-veiled) sarcasm mode myself and feel like swearing off the forums. But that's ultimately MY problem, not the site's or the mods'. I decided not to do a third stint as a mentor, for instance, and that isn't necessarily a "loss"...I know from feedback I've gotten from former mentees that I have things to offer, but if my head isn't where it should be for that role at a given time, then it's on me to recognize that so I don't alienate people. That said... While I'm not big on judging people by post count (pretty meaningless, IMO), if that metric is being used by forum users, then the idea of excluding COJ...or maybe just TAN...posts is not a bad one. (One decision I made to help me be a more sane BT user was to stop visiting COJ at all, btw.) Only other concrete suggestion I'd have is just this: I've always found the search function highly problematic. If there's any better search application that can be found...and then perhaps made more prominent...that might reduce the repetitiveness factor. Thanks again to you and the mods for maintaining such a high quality community. ============ Todd Covert |
| 2010-03-01 8:19 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Master 1240 Knightdale/Raleigh | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? When I joined the site I caught a hard time asking newbie questions and being told to search the forums first. I looked and looked and couldn't find it. It's a little easier now. Funny thing is, in the years since the same poster has been very helpful, and I think is a moderator. I just took the tone as in, "Search the forums red bike!", instead of, "Happy to answer, but searching the forums is also quite helpful." (Had to sneak in an inside joke.) We should all try to stick up for the really new people until they get to know people. I'll try to answer some of the repetitive posts. I've been hanging around the NC section. In the local groups it's not quite as anonymous because you will likely do some of the same races. Anyway, I still love the site. I'll put myself in the somewhat experienced, still slow, and really should be more helpful to the new users category. |
| 2010-03-02 9:29 AM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? Penn State - good observation on 1. I'm a talker. I admit it. I don't care what anyone else thinks about it. If I can offer any personal experience information, I try, but I don't offer it often in Tri Talk since I'm not an elitist or have a certificate in training or have that extensive knowledge like most. Is there a problem with COJ frequent posters posting information in the Tri Talk forum and that information is ill-guided, bad, in poor-taste, or incorrect? Then I'm sure it would be accepted by the poster to have the information corrected politely/with tact. It's all based on common courtesy. If I post smarminess, I make it known with the sarc font, the winky-smiley, or with a precursor statement. I do apologise if I was wrong (and not many people do) or stated something incorrectly. I believe in praise and thank yous. In COJ, I can be myself. In Tri Talk, I attempt to be a supportive triathlete. I've seen arguments come out in both forums. I don't care to get into those. It's not worth it. I enjoy this community. I hope to continue being here due to the number of friends I've made along the way. I hope to give back what I can when I can. Isn't that what this community is all about? |
| 2010-03-02 5:36 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Expert 1773 San Gabriel Valley, California | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? I've been coming here for a bit more than a year. I have gotten many questions answered yet I have posted relatively few questions. When I do ask a question, I am very, very careful in how I word it, because I don't want any misunderstandings and I don't want any mockery. I don't pay attention to post count, but I do look at who is doing the posting. There are a number of very experienced triathletes, both fast and not-so-fast, whose opinions I value greatly - the examples of BryanCD and KathyG were spot on. All of that being said, this is the only such site I ever go to. The posters here are almost always polite and helpful. I like the fact that the forums are moderated for courtesy. If it every degenerates, I will quit coming. I don't care one way or the other if there is a special forum where everyone can be as rude and disrespectful as they like as I won't visit that forum. I don't go to COJ because it looks like a colossal waste of time. My opinion only. This is a great overall site. I am part of a small group that has been able to create its own little niche (think quasi-forum) where only nice people visit. I wouldn't have that if the overall website were not what it is. I think the training logs are about as good as is possible to be. Please continue to maintain the high standards of decorum. |
| 2010-03-02 6:13 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? Ron, thanks taking time to share your thoughts. I did my first triathlon way back in the 80s. I found this site about 3-years ago by accident so I have not considerred myself a beginner from the time I signed up on BT. But I learned early with one of my first posts that there are some pretty strong opinions that differ from my "old-school" training style. I've picked up some good information from some of the more experienced guys...but I don't always agree with them. I've also learned from some of the not so seasoned triathletes on this site. The direct approach and sarcasm of anyone on this site really does not bother me. Probably because I can be a smart azz myself. However, I know some people can be put off by it. The name of the sight is "Beginner". I assume those are the the triathletes the site will attact and would want to keep. I try to keep this in mind when I read any post on tri talk. It's hard to see anyone get banned...I enjoyed reading Daremo's posts but if the monitors feel he crossed the line too many times...well, I guess something needed to be done. I also really enjoyed reading Jorge's posts but have not seen him in some time. Not really sure where I am going. Just want to let you know that I appreciate what you monitors do and I will continue visiting BT. Mostly for the training logs but also because there is some great information on many of the forums. I might add also that I really don't care about post count. But I can understand the opinions of some that COJ posts should not be counted on a triathlon forum...a bit misleading. |
| 2010-03-02 6:30 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Royal(PITA) 14270 West Chester, Ohio | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? Ron, thank you. For all that you and Mike and all the mods do to keep this site humming. For trying to maintain this site as a positive place. For trying to keep the discussions clear of rancor and obscenities. For occasionally nudging us when the line is crossed or stepped on. Your post is well spoken and clearly written. Good points. |
| 2010-03-02 9:39 PM in reply to: #2698578 |
| Champion 4942 Richmond, VA | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? bryancd - 2010-02-28 7:44 PM ... I posted in there last week for the first time ever and I didn't know who 50% of those people were and this is a triathlon forum. ...
that's ok. I didn't know who you were either.
(smiley face |
| 2010-03-02 10:05 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Elite 3067 Cheesehead, WI | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? I just want to say Thanks RON for being that 'caretaker' and making BT what it is. I love it here! Sure, I could probably post more but like others, life happens when I've made other plans and time gets sucked up with family, job etc... And I have had one 'run' in with someone a while ago and it actually sort of scared me. The internet is the great masquerade on some levels and knowing what someone means/says can get misconstrued. But the bottom line is that BT, in my opinion, celebrates Triathlon - the sport, the training, the athletes and in doing so spreads the tri bug while elevating awareness of the sport and bring people together to share their enthusiasm.I'll keep coming here as long as I feel welcome, find information, enjoy gaining support, and sharing some great laughs about our lives and our love of this sport! |
| 2010-03-03 1:47 PM in reply to: #2697049 |
| Pro 4292 Evanston, | Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard? Ron, I will reiterate what some others have said: this place has the best forum culture of any forum I've visited. You have done a fantastic job. SO LITTLE IDIOCY compared with the rest of the internets - it's marvelous! Hearing from newcomers on this thread who feel the need to word questions carefully to avoid ridicule, etc. is sad. This is why I will never post on... um... that other tri website. So yeah, we want to keep it relatively un-snarky around here. It is a shame if we lose people whose knowledge and experience would add a lot of value just because you need to enforce a certain TONE (not content, TONE), but ultimately, people can go to... um... that other website if they want to find knowledge & experience loaded with snarkiness. They come here for non-judgmental help. (I am already assuming that you delete offensive POSTS before you start banning people, and that if anyone has banned, that first step has already happened numerous times. That's the way it should be - people should get chances.) -CitySky |
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