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Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM
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 2010-06-22 10:44 AM |
Veteran 263  |  Subject: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IMA group of friends and I were discussing long distance triathlons at the weekend, and we came to the conclusion that swimming is not that important. Three of the people we know who have won their age groups at 70.3 events are pretty poor swimmers, but are very strong cyclists/runners. Obviously they're not going to succeed at the pro/elite level with a poor swim, but at the age group level they do very well. Conversely, another guy was the fastest swimmer in his age group by over 5 minutes (which is a long way in a 1.9mile swim) at a recent 70.3, but he ended up finishing MOP as the others were such good cyclists/runners. I know I'm in the minority here, as most people hate the swim, but I believe that swimming is not fairly represented in long course triathlons. |
| 2010-06-22 10:51 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
Expert 1179  Kansas City, Missouri | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM Are you trying to provide insight for someone or looking for arguments w/ this? It's not clear which side of the fence you're on. |
| 2010-06-22 10:53 AM in reply to: #2936491 |
Champion 10018 , Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM I agree and it's fine with me! In fact, I think the Olympic is the only one where swim time makes much of a difference (at least for a BOPer). |
| 2010-06-22 10:58 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
Master 2158 | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM I think that this is something that is basically accepted in the Tri community. As it has been said, you can't win on the swim, but you can lose on the swim. If you take the Ironman as the start of Tri, it was based on three separate events, with little or no regard to making them "even." Obviously, looking at the amount of time spent in each of the disciplines that make up a triathlon, the bike seems to be by far the most important. However, you still have to be able to get your run on. That being said, as an AG'er, you could use a stunning bike to win a race, as long as you can hold up on the run. |
| 2010-06-22 11:00 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
Pro 5761 Bartlett, TN | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM I have to disagree that it is irrelevant! Although I have never won a tri, and might never win one, but to me the swim is important. If you can't manage the swim, by the time you get to the bike, you would already be a step behind. I will agree with thsoe that say you do not want an event with a good swim, but I think you can really suffer if you do not have a decent swim. So to say it is irrelevant is wrong to me. |
| 2010-06-22 11:02 AM in reply to: #2936491 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM not sure what you are trying to do here, but i'll bite. agreed in long course racing the swim is a much smaller part (i mean in a half IM the swim is only 500m longer but the opther two are double). in short course racing it is a larger part of the race, as there is simply not as much space to make up for a poor swim. now, why is it that people think you cant swim fast and bike/run fast? they all help each other, and a good swim/good swim training will make the bike and run a lot easier, not just give you a better swim time. you wont be as tired after the swim, and thus will be able to bike run faster. and someone that bikes and runs the same as you, and swims faster, will beat you........ |
| 2010-06-22 11:05 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
Elite 3658 Roswell, GA | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM It sounds like you and your friends don't know a lot about racing 140.6 miles.
Perhaps the folks who had "poor" swims were simply pacing themselves correctly? Nobody wins their age group at a M-dot race being poor at one of the three disciplines. |
| 2010-06-22 11:07 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
Master 2094 | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM It always comes down to a foot race. The swim and bike just decide how far a head start/or delay you get over your compitition. |
| 2010-06-22 11:11 AM in reply to: #2936528 |
| Member 8 Seattle | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM pschriver - 2010-06-22 9:07 AM It always comes down to a foot race. The swim and bike just decide how far a head start/or delay you get over your compitition. Exactly. We have a winner! |
| 2010-06-22 11:12 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM Nobody ever said it had to be equal across all three....It's not about hating one of the sports or all three being equal. It's just the way the sport has evolved at the various distances. You also need to think about supply and demand here. Sure, you could make it equal and take a sample size of athletes and then create distances that would put the average time of each event at 2hrs or something...then you need to get people to sign up for a race that is a 3.5 mile swim, 45 mile bike and a 15 mile run (or whatever it would end up being)...have fun trying to get that one together... |
 2010-06-22 11:12 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2010-06-22 11:13 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
| 155 | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM I was pondering this as well. You can take substantial time off your run or bike, but proportionately not take as much time off the swim with more training. |
| 2010-06-22 11:14 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
| Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM lengthcroft - 2010-06-22 11:44 AM I know I'm in the minority here, as most people hate the swim, but I believe that swimming is not fairly represented in long course triathlons. Do you know how each of the pieces came to be and why they are the length they are? That might clear up a bit of the why. |
| 2010-06-22 11:16 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
| Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM ....this thread is irrelevant. |
| 2010-06-22 11:19 AM in reply to: #2936544 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM DanielG - 2010-06-22 9:14 AM lengthcroft - 2010-06-22 11:44 AM I know I'm in the minority here, as most people hate the swim, but I believe that swimming is not fairly represented in long course triathlons. Do you know how each of the pieces came to be and why they are the length they are? That might clear up a bit of the why.The original Ironman combined the distances of the Waikiki open water swim, Oahu bike race and Honolulu marathon. |
| 2010-06-22 11:21 AM in reply to: #2936550 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2010-06-22 11:23 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
| Veteran 345 Houston, TX | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM I know I'm in the minority here, as most people hate the swim, but I believe that swimming is not fairly represented in long course triathlons. I'll agree with you there, I certainly wish the swim was more "equally" represented and that the bike was "less" represented. The swim is by far my strength, the bike my worst and the run I am just average. All that equals almost DFL, just because of the bike. So yeah, I'd love to see the swim distance upped and the bike decreased, but as you said, we are in the minority. Its led me to really rethinking the tri thing. When I first thought of doing one, I don't know why, but I just assumed the 3 sports were equally represented. Learning what I have in the last 6 months, I feel like maybe if the bike is so heavily weighted, then this just isn't the sport for me. Maybe I should stick to runs and join a master's swim team and leave it at that. |
| 2010-06-22 11:24 AM in reply to: #2936550 |
| Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM bryancd - 2010-06-22 12:16 PM ....this thread is irrelevant. Agreed. "Swimming is irrelevant" isn't something I'd like in my post's title on a beginner triathlete website... They came up with long course duathlon just for this kind of thinking. |
| 2010-06-22 11:26 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
| Sneaky Slow 8694 Herndon, VA, | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM lengthcroft - 2010-06-22 11:44 AM (thread title) "Swimming is irrelevant" we came to the conclusion that swimming is not that important. swimming is not fairly represented in long course triathlons. Pick one, please.  Like Fred said, the thread title was wrong, but I gather it was written that way to get views, so in that sense, well done!! |
| 2010-06-22 11:28 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
| Master 2301 Rogersville, Alabama | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM There's always duathlon, swimming needed. |
| 2010-06-22 11:29 AM in reply to: #2936568 |
| Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM mademille - 2010-06-22 10:23 AM I know I'm in the minority here, as most people hate the swim, but I believe that swimming is not fairly represented in long course triathlons. I'll agree with you there, I certainly wish the swim was more "equally" represented and that the bike was "less" represented. The swim is by far my strength, the bike my worst and the run I am just average. All that equals almost DFL, just because of the bike. So yeah, I'd love to see the swim distance upped and the bike decreased, but as you said, we are in the minority. Its led me to really rethinking the tri thing. When I first thought of doing one, I don't know why, but I just assumed the 3 sports were equally represented. Learning what I have in the last 6 months, I feel like maybe if the bike is so heavily weighted, then this just isn't the sport for me. Maybe I should stick to runs and join a master's swim team and leave it at that. I know better but I just can't help myself, so......  Just out of curiosity, what does "EQUALLY REPRESENTED" mean? Should we swim 10 miles, bike 10 miles, run 10 miles? Should swims be 1 hour, bikes be 1 hour, run be 1 hour? How in the world do you determine this? What would you like your race distances to be? Ironman wasn't set up the way it is to represent anything beyond the longest swim race/bike race/and run race they had on the island. Was never intended to be some sort of democracy of sport. It was a fitness test. |
| 2010-06-22 11:30 AM in reply to: #2936534 |
| Pro 3906 Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM eplanajr - 2010-06-22 11:11 AM Actually, the swim and bike also have a big say in how well you are going to be able to run that foot race. Mess up either or both and its going to be a long run. Really, the perception to break it down to where some sport is getting slighted is ridiculous. This event is based on the original distances. Dont like it, dont race it, or better yet, become an RD and come up with something more 'fair', cuz that way everyone is happy, right? pschriver - 2010-06-22 9:07 AM It always comes down to a foot race. The swim and bike just decide how far a head start/or delay you get over your compitition. Exactly. We have a winner! |
| 2010-06-22 11:30 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
| Master 2356 Westlake Village , Ca. | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM All I know is that when I beat people out of the water and they finish just behind me at the end....I'm sure glad there was a swim...lol. |
| 2010-06-22 11:35 AM in reply to: #2936493 |
| Veteran 292 Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM BikerGrrrl - 2010-06-22 10:53 AM I agree and it's fine with me! In fact, I think the Olympic is the only one where swim time makes much of a difference (at least for a BOPer). I have a friend that's a very good swimmer. He's done Iron Mans in the past, but has started concentrating on Olympic distances the last couple years for this very reason. |
| 2010-06-22 11:44 AM in reply to: #2936469 |
| Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Swimming is irrelevant in 70.3 and IM Since I have plotted data on this before I will post it for those who are interested (I believe this was IMWA 2005 - I was looking for a race with around 500 finishers as opposed to a NA with 2000+ just to make the data easier to see):    Shane |
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