What I learend at my "first" swim coaching session .....
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General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » What I learend at my "first" swim coaching session ..... | Rss Feed ![]() |
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Cycling Guru ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() This as much for my benefit to help me remember things we went over as it is to benefit those other newb swimmers out there like me. Today was my first ever one on one swim coaching session that I asked for at my local pool. She has coached for years and directs the master's group as well as one on one work with many swimmers and triathletes. So she seemed to be a good fit for me as well as being able to get to the pool at the usual times I'm there anyways. I'm a back of the MOP or front of the BOP swimmer in my eyes (and loosely based on my swim resutls from races) and want to work on getting up into the thick of the race so I can then use my strengths of cycling and running to be in AG contention. That is the goal. The whole "train your weakness, race your strength" approach! We met at the pool and talked for a few minutes about what I'd like to do. Then she watched me for a simple typical 100. I told her that for a fresh 100 I usually do okay ..... and I did a 1:36. OOPS! I'm usually in the high 1:40's, low 1:50's for my first 100 off the bat. Guess it was the whole "someone's watching" mentality so I tried really hard to have a good stroke. What she immediately noticed ....... and was alluded to in another thread ....... my stroke count per length is around 19 - 20. She said at 6'-1" there is no way I should be that high and she would like to see me consistently in the 14 - 16 range. She liked that I had bilateral breathing down fine and that I stayed high in the water. But she did also notice that I cross my centerline on every stroke which causes me to very imperceptibly "S" through the water instead of going nice and straight. This is one thing she said that is causing my stroke to be higher and makes me work harder to go forward. Her focus for me for this session was to try and get me to feel streamlined and long in the water to get my stroke count down. So we started wit a kick board single hand drill to get me to feel that way. One hand flat on a small board and using the other to swim focusing on long strokes and keeping the other arm fully extended with the head pressed to it. Then I came back 25 on the other side. She immediatley saw a disparity in strength on sides. My right arm has a nice high elbow recovery while my left tends to go way back and sweep around without the high elbow. So she had me repeat the drill without the kickboard and try to focus more on the high elbow recovery and staying extended. The progression from there was to do the same drill as a catch-up with stroke, 3 kicks, other side stroke, 3 kicks. Then she went with a catch-up to the wrist - bring stroke arm forward and when the hand crosses the other's wrist, start that side. Next she progressed to elbow with the same process. And then finally to the head/typical swim. Each time she emphasized that I need to stay wide and not cross over (which when I used the kickboard for the one hand's rest it immediately became apparent when I was crossing over and I had to adjust to get it to stay out). With the last few drills I was consistently in the 16 per 25 range, which is where she would like to see me at the most, so in just a few drills I was well on the way! Next she watched me do a 25 kick. I told her that my kick sucked, but she wanted to see it. Man it was slow ....... ugh! She said my flexibility was not so much an issue as I could get the legs pointed but that I did not have the feet "flutter" that was needed - that my legs were stiff in their execution. she had me come back on my back and try to work on the flutter and I think I did better with that. She then had me use some "zoomer" fins (very short extension - about on inch) and go again with a board focusing on the "flutter" ... man it is much easier with fins! The last thing she had me do was to go back and work on the high elbows by doing a "monkey" swim where I kept my head out of the water looking forward (think sighting open water) for half the pool and then swim regular. The key was to keep the elbows really high each stroke. By its nature you couldn't cross over in the drill with the head up, but it was tough to keep the elbows high on the recovery. Definitely need some work there! After that we talked about how I should approach the next few sessions. She said not to worry about volume and focus on short but correct work. She said one of her favorite workouts is to do 20 x 25 on :10 rest and maintain the same stroke count for the entire session. She said even for her it is a really tough workout but is very rewarding. What she would like for me is to stay long and streamlined in the water and take advantage of my vessel, keep my stroke count down and work on the high elbows and staying off the centerline. A lot to process from only about a 1/2 hour of work! We are going to meet again next week to review and update and work on other suggestions. Hopefully it all pays off! Edited by Daremo 2007-11-28 10:27 AM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Sounds like a very worthwhile lesson even more so for 30 minutes. I hope she helps you improve as your biking is amazing and your running rocks too! Happy drilling! |
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Sneaky Slow ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Great post. Have been on the fence about getting a swim lesson. I think your post will get me off said fence. Thanks for posting that. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Sounds like a great session! Certainly worth what you paid for. Yea, I always make sure that my hands are entering and 10/2. Like on a clock. I don't have the problem with coming in at 12, but my left arm can get a little lazy at times and start entering the water at around 11. I bet you are going to be very fast in the water next year! |
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Cycling Guru ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() KSH - 2007-11-28 11:37 AM I bet you are going to be very fast in the water next year! Heck, I'd settle for "average!" |
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![]() Awesome job! But yeah, get that stroke count down. I'm 5'3" and if I concentrate and don't wear myself out, I can stay at 19-20 ![]() |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Daremo - 2007-11-28 11:50 AM < Heck, I'd settle for "average!" Id say that 1:40's and 1:50's for triathlete's IS avereage. You should be much faster than that after a strong off season and a few lessons. I swim about 1:25/ 100 and I am usually near the front, or right behind the faster guys. You are on your way, you are well on your way..... |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Thanks for posting... your swim sounds EXACTLY like where I am. Im going to try some of these drills you talked about. Thanks! |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Your experience was similar to my own. Glad you got out of it what you expected. Nothing like a good swim coach to tweak some things and shave some secs. Thx for sharing. |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Great stuff, Rick, keep updating this thread, I think it will be very useful to many. Stroke count is a great indicator of stroke efficiency. It's NOT nessicarily the fatstest, but it gives you a chance to really work body position. I always try and hold the same stroke count for an entire workout if it doesn't call for a fast pace. I've gone as low as 13, but normally I am a 15-16 guy, though a few inches shortehr than you. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Daremo - 2007-11-28 11:23 AM She immediatley saw a disparity in strength on sides. My right arm has a nice high elbow recovery while my left tends to go way back and sweep around without the high elbow.
I bet some weight training could fix that. Sorry, couldn't resist... Mark |
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Thanks for sharing! I have been taking private swim lessons for the past couple of months, and it has made a HUGE difference for me (a weak swimmer). My pool offers a package of four 30 minute private lessons for $90 - it was a bargain for what I got out of it. My instructor has me doing many of the same drills you mentioned. I just had my last session in my second package last night - I plan to work on my stoke over the next couple of months, then take a refresher lesson or two in the early spring. So, for any of you thinking about lessons, I second Daremo's experience that it was money well spent. |
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Cycling Guru![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Strength in stroke ......... not in physical imbalance ...... I forgot, she also wanted me to do some swim golf (google it if you don't know what it is). I've done some before, but it was not part of my regular workouts. |
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![]() | ![]() Wow, it sounds like you covered a lot of ground with the personal coaching! I've been taking group swim lessons or masters for about 3 years now. I've gotten most of those same corrections and drills at one time or another but in more like 30 months than 30 minutes! |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Sounds like the same points that are stressed in Total Immersion. I had the same problem with crossing the center-line, my instructor had me think about following a 'railroad track' with my arms, actually helped. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() When I really focused on reducing my stroke count a year or two ago, I had to switch from bilateral breathing to same side. If you drop from 20 strokes to 13 per length, and you currently breathe every third stroke, that's 6-7 breaths per length dropping to 4 if you stay with breathing every third. You might find a 3-2-3-2 (stroke) breathing pattern is sufficient instead of breathing every second stroke. To achieve left/right balance, I breathe all left side going one direction and all right side coming back. |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() SevenZulu - 2007-11-28 1:07 PM When I really focused on reducing my stroke count a year or two ago, I had to switch from bilateral breathing to same side. If you drop from 20 strokes to 13 per length, and you currently breathe every third stroke, that's 6-7 breaths per length dropping to 4 if you stay with breathing every third. You might find a 3-2-3-2 (stroke) breathing pattern is sufficient instead of breathing every second stroke. To achieve left/right balance, I breathe all left side going one direction and all right side coming back. See, now it's the opposite with me. I always find that the fewer times I breath while still being comfortable, the longer my glide can progress, thus lowering my stroke count. If I am really going easy and looking for the lowest number, I'll breathe every 5 or 6, but that's only if I am going for 12-13. For Swim Golf, being a combination of staoke count and time, I found 3x alternate the best. |
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Iron Donkey![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() TERRIFIC INFORMATION!!! Thanks for posting this! |
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Cycling Guru![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I typically breathe twice on one side (every 2 I guess), then switch to the other side for 2. I guess that is a 2 - 3 - 2 pattern. I just like to keep it balanced. Then depending on the washing machine and sun location in races I am comfortable breathing either side for longer periods. Breathing's never been my problem ...... Friday and Monday will be trying to put into practice things she pointed out. Going to focus on one aspect at a time instead of trying to incorporate everything at once. Too many things to screw up trying to do it all together! |
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Member![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Rick, Thanks for posting this. I know as a beginner I’ll get some great info out of this thread. I’ve got a question when you say crossing the centerline. Little background about me. Just started training in Sept after nothing for about 20 yrs. No background in organized swimming. Just splashed around the pools as a kid. Spent the first 2 months starting running and biking, now starting to fit swimming into the schedule. Yes I will probably also get a lesson early next year but just wanted to spend this fall getting to a point were I could really start training. Sorry – back to my question. I’ve just started swimming 25 yards at a time thinking about form. I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do with my arm wants it enters the water. If a let it pull in what I think of as straight down towards the bottom of the pool and then back along my thigh it feels pretty relaxed and feels like it does not cross my body like you mention. However I thought I read somewhere my arm shouldn’t be straight but keep my elbow bent. When I do this the pull? Not sure if that is the right term, it comes across my chest. Doesn’t feel as good or as relaxed. Sounds like I may have it backwards, and have been thinking the wrong way (wouldn’t be the first time). sorry for the long post. |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Great stuff, Rick. Thanks, man! |
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Cycling Guru![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Virtus - 2007-11-28 3:13 PM I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do with my arm wants it enters the water. If a let it pull in what I think of as straight down toward the bottom of the pool and then back along my thigh it feels pretty relaxed and feels like it does not cross my body like you mention. However I thought I read somewhere my arm shouldn’t be straight but keep my elbow bent. When I do this the pull? Not sure if that is the right term, it comes across my chest. Doesn’t feel as good or as relaxed. Sounds like I may have it backwards, and have been thinking the wrong way (wouldn’t be the first time). sorry for the long post. I'm really not the right person to answer this as there are plenty of fish on here, but from what I've read and heard here, think about it as "climbing a ladder" where you extend one arm in front of you and then pull yourself linearly up. This keeps the arms always in line and not crossing your body. For me and my mind the concept works except when you throw in the "body roll" that all good swimmers talk about. At that point the idea gets a little wacky and awkward sounding to me. ;-P Edited by Daremo 2007-11-28 2:37 PM |
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