Bike Intensity... (Page 2)

Since we're on the topic...

Group rides can most certainly be good training.  Probably not so good for IM-specific training rides, but still can be a valuable part of an overall training plan (with the 'right' group).  A good group ride can push you to ride harder than you might otherwise--nothing like having a live 'rabbit' to chase or try to pull away from.  And many triathletes seem overly reluctant to 'push it' on the bike.  The problem is knowing what kind of ride you are going to get in advance.  So you either have to know the group well enough to understand what you're going to get or be willing to take control of the group (make them work ).

That said, I don't do much/any group riding simply because it's hard for me to work it into my schedule from a timing perspective.

Of course then there are those of us who do the opposite and need to learn restraint on the bike and remember there is a run afterwards ....

Yes, it is funny how on race day the problem is usually the opposite.  

Funny because on Saturday I blew off the group ride becasue of those concerns. They go hard in spurts but they also take long and (often) frequent breaks. Just not was I was looking for. I enjoy riding with them and they definately helped me improve last year, I'm just not so sure it's going work into my sechedule as much this year. I think it'll prolly be more just to mix things up.

This is on/off topic because it is another challenge to staying at the "appropriate" intensity.

I believe there is also merit to Bryan's comment about training alone w/ regards to the solitude one will feel on race day. Same reason I don't wear an i-pod on my long runs anymore. I need to work on my ability to keep myself entertained as much as possible!

Dang, Bryan has been checking out my logs again

Definately a problem I have always had is training at an intensity I should be racing at. Hell maybe I am justing becoming and old man (at 32) but it always takes me a while to get "into" a workout. Biking maybe 5 miles on a shorter ride or even 20 miles on a 100+ ride to get into that groove. Running is usually 3 miles or so before I can get my HR where it needs to be without feeling like I am dying. I am always amazed at looking at others logs and seeing workouts with such good avg's and then looking at mine.

For some reason on race day I am on go from the start. I have 14 weeks to get these issues rectafied.

At an IM you are NEVER alone ..... there was not a single point during any part of the race where there was not someone within 50 feet of me.

Now in independent races that is a different thing!  Once I started the second bike lap at Chessieman I passed one person in a 45 minute period and saw no one else ..... at all ...... I was worried I'd gone off course!  Now that was solitude.  Felt like a training ride (at 24 mph with crazy winds blowing me accross the road ...... ......).

Daremo - 2008-03-17 9:59 AM Z1 low Z2 = recovery in my eyes ....... doesn't make sense to me to do long rides like that unless you are working on building your long range overall endurance at the beginning of the season. Except if you plan on racing at that intensity to "save it" for the run. And there's nothing wrong with that approach either except you are taking a risk that you will still have something left for the run.

I think that pretty much described my race last year. 

And yes, all my long rides (i.e. over 90 miles) ended up in a mid zone 1 average with lots of spikes in the HR when going uphill.

I know to get faster I have to change that but have yet to display the mental discipline keep pushing hard enough for long enough.   

Yeah and I didn't take it literally. I get Rick's drift too and my only other similar experience was at Marine Corps last year. But even with all those people around me I was still in my own world. Especially on miles 23-26.2!

Wow .. tsk tsk ....... shame on you!!!  You ought to know better!

snap

What always gets me is how to judge the effort after the ride.  FOr example, I felt like I worked my a$$ off on Saturday, immediately was in the 160s getting up the first 20 miles, felt like everytime I looked down the HR was way too high, but nothing I felt I could do about it in the terrain.  

I don't have exact zones, I only did a test a while ago on a spin bike that I am sure is not accurate, so I go more or less by run zones as well...   But my average for the ride was 149.  I know from riding that 149 is a real nice zone for me, and I'd be happy with a 149 ave in an IM, but it sure as hell didn't feel that way Saturday.

Not sure if this adds anything, or what the question is anymore.....

Performing Z3 training (aka tempo for cycling or Marathon pace for running) can produce great physiological adaptations and if managed properly it can be done more frequently with a relative shorter recovery time than LT or VO2 max sessions. The key is to manage the total load (as always) and don’t over do it but this is the sort of intensity it could be include in any athlete’s schedule year around.

What’s funny is that some coaches called it “training in the grey zone” and advice athletes to stay away from it! I wouldn’t recommend beginners to perform IM trainer rides at full Z3 but they could certainly work their way up and push at different ranges to allow their bodies to adapt and at the same time to manage the total fatigue.

Beginners should focus on going the distance 1^st and foremost but as training progresses they should push the pace a bit and move from high Z1 to low Z2 to mid Z2 to high Z2. Top AGers can very between mid to high Z2 low Z3 to mid Z3. Of course, the best way to find out is by riding and trying it; do not be afraid of choosing one or few long ride and push hard until you blow up (don’t do this with every ride!). Yes it will suck, the way back home will be tough and you’ll curse at the world but without pushing ourselves out of our comfort zones from time to time we don’t learn what our real limits are.

Thanks for some of the good advice in this thread. Unfortunately, my BT time has been limited lately, so I haven't read all of it, nor have I contributed to it at all.

I spend a good portion of my long ride at tempo watts. I have a feeling I'll be doing IMLP around the low end of tempo, but can't say for sure now. Does that sound about right? Is tempo watts sort of the equivalent of zone 3? I barely ever even look at my HR now when riding...is that bad? Even though I've always HR trained (and now train by power on the bike), I've always gone by feel on race day...

I spend a good portion of my long ride at tempo watts. I have a feeling I'll be doing IMLP around the low end of tempo, but can't say for sure now. Does that sound about right? >>>

Your coach will know cuz he has access to your power files but probably high Z2 watts would be a good ceiling considering the issues with the run. Performing some training at higher intensities and actually racing and IM are different. Yes you want to do many race pace sessions but you never get to run a marathon off the bike on training hence IMO is better to ride a tad slower during the race. OTOH, using a power meter gives you a lot of info a HRM doesn’t and because of that we can develop better pacing strategies for the bike and set up our run. For HIM and IM racing is been discussed by different coaches how pacing is a function of Training Stress Score and not of Intensity Factory but that’s another topic for another thread.

Is tempo watts sort of the equivalent of zone 3? >>> yes

I barely ever even look at my HR now when riding...is that bad? >>> no, I don't monitor HR on the bike much or at all because we have the power meter which is better