The Decline of the BT community (Page 2)

I think some of these issues have been in the back of my mind for a while.  As a mostly lurking newbie, I found BT to be an excellent resource.  I became a member in June of last year.  Lurking tends to be my personality although I do try and post here now and then as I think that it is good to contribute.  Part of my lack of posting is that I tend to use my phone and yes the mobile version sucks.  I have BT book marked with the full version.  This works most of the time in keeping me away from the mobile version.  If I want to post, most of the time I go to the desk top like now.  Doesn't happen very often because it is long walk from the living room to the computer room.  lol 

I too have noticed a decline in traffic.  How long has this been going on for?  My recent thoughts on this is just the time of year.  People are gearing down to their off season. 

I find myself lurking on ST quite a bit now.  Conversation is good over there but they are intimidating.  I had a question a month ago or so about an injury and ended up posting it over there instead of here just because I knew I would get more answers.  I wanted lots of opinions.  BT still feel like home though.

I have been logging my training here for almost a year now and I love it.  Only thing I don't like is with the changes I don't see my goals on my training log.  I like having goals and want to see them daily when I log.

All these things being said, I do really appreciate this web site.  I have learned a ton here. 

Totally agree.  It's not worth it to post a thread in TT or in the main boards because of the negativity.  I'd rather stick to a small mentor group.

Maybe.  But Fred's points about the mobile version of the site have been true for as long as it has existed.

I'm a software guy and the mobile site could use some UI help from top to bottom.  But a couple simple suggestions on how to make it more bearable:

1) When reading a thread on the forums, it should either start on the last page or have a "jump to last page" button.  Scrolling to the bottom, and then flicking through that awful drop-down listbox to change to the last page (of about a bazillion) is a huge pain.  And particularly on large ones like the mentor threads, people want to look at the most recent posts, not the first.

*even better might be to display the forum threads in reverse order - most recent on the top / first page, getting earlier as you go down.  But that should be configurable in a user's forum settings.

2) Fix the forum submit box so the paragraph formatting is not lost when writing something on a tablet / phone.

Those two alone would greatly improve usability of the mobile site.  If some additional work went into the inspire system, I think you'd see a much more active site.

Fred-good post. Agree with your points.

I've been a regular since 2009 and still come to the main site more than I should. The Mobile site is awful. Before, I could click and I would be at the last post in my mentor group. Easy way to check on what is going on. Since the change on the Mobile site I rarely check the site via my iphone. Just too much trouble. Now, I rarely check the Triathlon Talk threads. I check the mentor group several times a day, look in on "friends" training logs, read race reports and log my training. May also be the time of year to some extent as tri season is over for me.

If it wasn't for the mentor groups and the training log I would probably be pretty sporadic in my visits. I'm still a fan of BT and what it provides but have noticed the trends as well.  

As to points 3&4, some mentor groups (including yours, Fred) or other specific groups like some challenge groups, ask you to give your first name. And I think that goes a long way toward extending courtesy to other people on BT. It is easy to be snarky or hide when you just have an Internet persona. I'm not saying that people should be req'd to give up their privacy and divulge their names, but IMO, I think it goes a long way toward promoting thoughtful discussion.

Melissa

I have been on BT 10 years now.  I agree with your concerns Fred except for the mobile site thing because I do not blog that way and have little knowledge of it,  but I know Ron wants to hear about those things.  I also agree with the "a few bad apples" response.  Over time people get overly sensitive about things too.  There is a similar discussion over in COJ.  Often you express an opinion and people jump all over you....geez o pete people grow a spine we are not children. Agree to disagree.  The thing about sport is there is no right way to do things or train.  There is a lot of if you don't agree with me you are and idiot attitude.  Its hard to moderate out. 

I feel strongly the new friends lists are a HUGE detriment to the site.  I think one of the strengths of BT is its social aspects and it makes it SO MUCH HARDER to move around on the site from blog to blog.  If I were new to the site I would never be able to find it, figure it out or use it.  Makes making new friends less attractive.  I have met some of the best friends of my life thru BT and I might add we have had several marriages as well.  Its easier to be snarky with people you don't "know"  and have no interaction with daily. 

I find I don't go on the forums as much as I used to.  I look at tri  talk and dont' even see much I have an interest in reading.  Sometimes I just read it to make sure no crazy info was given. 

Overall I think the sire would be greatly enhanced by making the friends list like it was before, fixing the mobile app and fixing the way the pages on the forums are accessed. 

Bring Bryan back!  

Seriously though, spot on.I enjoy this place but the reality is that I head over to ST when I'm really looking for specific, race themed advice.  I'll cross post here because there are a still a few super knowledgeable people here such as yourself, Shane, Colin, etc but the content really seems to be beyond "beginner triathlete" anymore.  I know it's all cyclical but it just seems off.  

Great thread.  OK, I'll play.

Been here only a bit over a year.  First six months were fantastic - learned a ton, etc.  Really helped a lot.  Even through last spring...

However, since the beginning of the summer, it has definitely seemed "different."  I've noticed that I also drift over to ST a lot more (not posting as much there, as the "playground" response is so middle-school that it's not always worth it.  Sometimes, but not always).  If you're choosy about when to participate over yonder, it can be a very useful site (and almost always very entertaining).

I've found the TT forum to be less active, too.  I understand the mentor group thing, and have been in a couple really great ones.  However, I think it detracts from the site as a whole (yes, this is my opinion - and likely at odds with many others) when people hunker down in the mentor groups and aren't out and about.

Maybe that's better for the site as a whole, but I don't like it as much.  There are only so many mentor groups one can be in, after all, and if we all find a small group, the richness of the site is diminished, IMO.

Odd timing, Fred, as I've been really struggling the last 2 months.  I used to blow off tons of work to read BT, but I'm lately getting too much done and not reading as much!    I thought it was perhaps just the off season/injuries/light burn out that were getting to me, but on reflection I agree with much of your (and subsequent) points. 

So, maybe it's partly me and partly a change in the site, but I don't feel the same level of participation across the site as even this time last year (so, seasonally adjusted).  

Any way the mods would contribute some information on postings over time?  I realize this might not be something to be made public, but I am really curious if it's perception, a shift in posts to smaller fora/groups, or a real decline...

Great discussion, and I'm here for the future - even if it's a slower one (hey - just like my racing!).

Matt

This is an issue for me as well.  I have a bookshelf full of running,fitness and triathlon books and magazines that I've read and years of info gathered here and on other sites online so my mind is full but I can't give you a source for the info so I don't bother posting what I know.

I also agree with lisa and stacers? about the 'bad apples' and particularly the snarky comments, insults and inside jokes being annoying.  I pretty much avoid COJ for this reason, but I've seen it in tri talk also.

Every day for the past 10 years I get to work and first thing I do is check the forums.  Both TT and COJ have totally died down.  And the Political forum has only 2 or 3 posts to follow.  I then go to ST and there are always multiple posts to check in on.  Even the local communities like Colorado forum are dead now a days.

What I find sad is that these concerns about the new forums and the community aspects were posted about almost immediately after the new site design was released.  And IMO those of us that voiced our concern were shouted down or dismissed.  Funny thing is just last week I almost posted this same post.

See: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=489551&page=1#

RON, maybe you and your staff could tell us your opinions.  Are we wrong and the stats show it?  Is BT still gaining good numbers of new users?  I love this site and am not going anywhere.  Even though I am taking a year off Tris.  I hope things turn around and I hope that changes are made to get this site back to what I remember.

I've been on this site since 2006 when I actually was Beginner Triathlete. I'm not a beginner much anymore. I agree there is certainly less traffic on tri-talk and Ironman forums. I have a few observations on this.

First, perhaps what we're seeing is that the growth of triathlon as a sport is in itself declining. Triathlon participation grew and grew and grew for the last ten years. I don't have any real data, but certainly that growth can't last forever. Less beginners equal less new posts equal less traffic.

Next, I think you'll agree that frequent engaging threads are the oxygen that keeps a message board like BT alive. Sure, people like the logs and the data and the tools, but there are plenty of TrainingPeaks and Garmin Connects for that.  At it's heart I think the BT community is centered around the message boards.

So what drives people to have lively engaging posts, and what drives them away?

Many people post because they have a question to ask or an observation to make and seek response from the group . A great reason, and BT is good about not shouting them down with "Use Search you noob you!" or posting a "we discussed that in this thread in 2011, please read and if that doesn't answer all your questions, then read this one from 2012".  Nobody likes that sort of homework - a message board is not a reference library! Thus I think the Related Posts section of the redesign is a mistake. I think it probably has an unintended consequence of reducing posts.

In recent months, I've noticed there is indeed an increase in the number of people who respond to these type posts with an overly strongly defended, my-way-or-the-highway answer. I don't know what motivates these people, maybe they just like to argue for fun ("Gotta post, there's someone wrong on the Internet!"). Too many of these responses, and people stop posting.  A polite from a moderator to tone it down would likely go a long way.

Banning, though, is a usually a mistake, and especially when a site bands a long time poster.  Really I missed that BryanCD was banned, but I'm sure for those reading around then it had a chilling effect.  I have no idea what happened (nor do I really care) but I'll strongly state (irony noted) that the very last thing a site needs is to see long time prolific posters banned. I've seen good boards die a quick death when an "incident" occurs, people take sides, one or more people get banned, the moderator and site operators become targets and referees, and before you know it the board is sliding fast toward oblivion. That kind of thing casts a long dark shadow. Don't do it, just don't do it!

I have a longstanding observation I'd like to share: we have a good number of regular posters who make their living as triathlon coaches. With all due respect, some of these people cannot let a disagreement go by and will beat all such posters into submission, or merely overwhelm the thread with their detailed, expert answer. It's like having a Know-it-All doctor / lawyer / car expert / computer expert / other-expert at a cocktail party take over a conversation. Sure people will politely listen to the Expert Pontificate From Upon High, nod in agreement, bow to the Expert, but then politely depart as quickly as possible. And they don't go back that cocktail party again - who wants to listen to that guy again?  After all, there are a lot of experts and the nice thing about it is they have so many opinions.  Note that my auto-signature is "For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert."  That's Arthur C. Clarke, a pretty smart guy himself.  (Smarter than me, because I just realized I typo'd his name in my auto-signature!)

So if you think you just might be one of those experts, perhaps you could evaluate whether you're overwhelming the thread and chill it a bit?

Other people post because something happened in their lives (success, achievement, failure) and they want to share it.  I broke my collarbone recently and have to DNS Ironman Arizona, and I shared my problem here because (a) I wanted to share my experience with like-minded folks and (b) I was hoping to get some ideas of what to expect in recovery I was happy with that thread. I was touched by many people's kind words, and informed by other people's experience. 

But to get traffic to these posts and the question posts, people have to see them. If a message board overly slices and dices its audience into too many subgroups, then no critical mass is achieved. Too few subgroups, too much traffic, it's overwhelming.  Too many subgroups, no traffic, it looks like a dead zone. Observation: count the number of forums on ST, then count the number of BT.  I think ST could have a couple more, I think BT could have a lot less. For example, BT could consolidate the state forums into regions like "Pacific Northwest" and the boards would have some traffic.

So that's enough of my observations, and thanks for reading.

Fred, I think that your observations have merit, and it is only by examining things that WE can make them better. I think the forums are cyclical in nature. In my nearly 3 years here I have seen people come and go, ideas hashed and re-hashed and conversations repeated. So, my involvement in those discussions lessens and I read them less.  And I find that I am less apt to respond within those discussions as well, because my knowledge base is much less than yours, or Shane's or a number of others here. But that cyclical thing is the nature of the beast, I think.  I found that I had to get into a good mentor group to find useful/usable information, the in-depth kind which I am finally beginning to gain from (what can I say, I'm a slow learner). I also found that within those groups I *met* people that I now care about, people that have inspired me to improve, and people I am currently tracking in their races and even more importantly, in life. For me, that has been the biggest take away that I have from BT, and I will continue to be involved with those people, because throughout life I have found that people are the part of life that matters the most. 

As an old-fashioned laptop user, I can't speak to your mobile experience, although I have seen others with the same concern. I like to think that this is something that is being worked on. I can only speak from the experience I had during testing of the new site, and it seems like Ron is truly concerned that this be a useful tool for people, no matter what equipment they are using to get here.

I believe that people like us that feel as though they have a stake will insure that this community flourishes.  That leaves me with a good feeling about BT's future. It may be bumpy at times, but it'll be worth the trip. You have reinforced again for me that there are folks that care, so thank you for opening up this conversation.