Business vs. Government, who do you trust to look out for you best?

If it must be black and white, big business it is.

1) Truly free markets react at lightening speed to provide exactly what the market is looking for at a price it can bear.
2) Business  doesn't discriminate as to where that need is coming from
3) It's compelled to take risk to continue innovating because there's always someone else out there "waiting to eat your lunch".
4) It can't spend endlessly without regard for its financial future.
5) Best of all, a truly free market quickly and efficiently eradicates poor products, overpriced products, and anything in between. There are no hearings, no discussions, no nothing. If you aren't selling, you aren't in business.

this is all great and idealistic but is far from true. I think the depressions and current 'great recession" speak for themselves with unregulated industry. It is required by a corporation to what is in its best interest not its consumers best interest. ( i know this has been debated already in another post so going to cut it off there).

I think it's true that both fail, soviet russia failed, and our free market system has shown itself to fail. I think most people are turning the idea of protection from tyranny of the majority to tyranny of those that wield the most money. I have to admit i am one of those people.

According to what is most certianly i highly skewed poll posted on CNN.com 65% of people would agree about regulating the free markets.

The banking industry is one of the most regulated industries outside of natural monopolies.  And blaming bankers for the current recession is beyond simplistic.

Our markets have failed? Go ahead call me arrogant but this is still the best country in the world. I wouldn't choose to live anywhere else. There's also significant, credible, and reasonable arguments that most of the FDR's Government action prolonged the Great Depression rather than ended it.

Another reason: you can choose not to participate in big business by not buying a certain product or avoid any company you deem to be evil. You have no choice but to participate in Government. programs, particularly at the national level.

This is a black and white thread and I'm OK with that.


Edited by merlin2375 2010-04-29 5:27 PM

I trust individuals, given truthful information and a plethora of competitive choices provided by companies operating on a level playing field, will make smart decisions.

I believe in the Invisible Hand and the checks and balances inherent in a free and competitive marketplace.

That means the role of government should be limited to laying out a bare minimum of rules, making sure those rules are followed, then getting the heck out of the way.

I say neither, even though you denied me the choice. Our businesses are in bed with our government so that they can both try and screw us. Neither one is looking out for our best interest and both are merely trying to grab as much of the pie as they can get away with. Government is trying to tax us on one side, while corporations are trying to cut corners left and right trying to save a buck here or there. Because we are very fragmented and unable to speak with as large of a voice as them, we get the shaft.

Same here. I voted big government, only because we at least have the chance of voting them out if they f*ck us.

Neither.... I trust my own judgement and accept the accountabilty of my own actions and decisions.

Rare thinking today, yet common place just 50 years ago.

Not worthy of a vote.....

My answer is NEITHER! Its all about me baby!

I can't believe this is even a serious debate, at least the way the question is posed.

Business doesn't care about you and they will not look out for you. That's true whether you're an employee or a consumer. Any large, public company will make a profit selling you a product that may kill you, if they can. If they can sell you a product by lying to to you, they will. If they can cut corners on safety and pay slave wages, they will. I don't put this down to some simplistic view that businesses are evil. I put this down to the fact that they are REQUIRED to maximize value for their shareholders. Not only that, but maximizing shareholder value and, by extension, stock prices, improves bond ratings and makes it far cheaper for business to borrow money.

Even ignoring the motivation of the business as an entity, the individuals running those business will maximize their own benefit even at the expense of the long term health of the company.

The first response and the claim about banking industry regulation are both non sequiturs. The response has nothing to do with business looking out for you. The regulation claim simply doesn't mean anything. It doesn't matter how regulated the industry is if there are sufficient gaps to allow for companies to take extreme risks and pass those risks to customers.

There is no such thing as a free market outside of a 100% barter system.  Modern markets require currency, which is created and backed by governments, and traded and valued against other currencies throughout the world.  You can't have one without the other.

Given that, I voted for government, at least how the US has established its system, as those in power can at least be voted out and there are some limited checks and balances, not just unfettered greed.

I know what you're getting at with the question, but the problem with it is that 0% of a businesses reason for being is to look out for you (the times when my interests and a businesses are in synch are gravy, but they have no responsibility at all to look out for me) while that is a core function (to a varying degree depending on your viewpoint) of goverments reason for existence.  That said, I don't trust the government a whole lot to look out for me since I think it's largely controlled by big business anyway, but overall I trust that my congressman is looking out for my interests more than GE is.

This is a fundamentally myopic view of business.  The business is looking out for you that is exactly what they do.  If they do not look out for you, you and your friends do not buy products from them.  If they do not take care of you and their other customers they go out of business so it is wholly in their best interest to care for you.  That being said no they are not there to make your decisions for you something government often feels compelled to do ala airbags.  When they were first required in cars they killed many people did the government get sued for that?  Did they take much of the heat for that decision?  If they paid anything out did it hurt them or did they just tax others more?  You have next to no voice in the federal government, 1 vote out of ~200,000,000.  And unlike the Feds businesses don't forcibly take fom me to give to you, we are both treated equally or at least our money is treated equally.

There are tons of instances on both sides of why neither is looking out for us (hence my neither response). Just like my 1/200,000,000 vote doesn't matter neither does my not buying 1 car/TV/any other junk matter to the businesses. Sure they'd like my money, just like the politician would like to get my vote, but my 1 purchase isn't going to break them.

Same here.  Either way, we're not getting kissed first.   

Actually I agree with the spirit of your post, however, the difference is a business does not have the ability to force you to buy from them the government does, and they have the people with guns to prove it.  Add to that most business are not monopolies.  The government, on the other hand, is the largest monopoly in the country and are tasked with "regulating" themselves.

nm

Edited by akustix 2010-04-29 10:32 PM

I disagree, don't think it's a myopic view, I think it's a realistic view.  Like I said, there are obviously times when your interests and the interests of the company coincide - like the examples you give where a company looks out for me so I buy a product from them.  And I would guess that's the case most of the time.  But they are not doing it because they care about me, they are doing it solely so I buy a product from them.  If they have the opportunity to make a profit by doing something that isn't in my interest (but is still legal) they are bound not only by the threat of lawsuits from their shareholders to do it but by the laws of the markets. 

Yes there are times when a company looks out for me, probably a lot of the time.  But it has zero to do with any feeling of responsibility for my well being and everything to do with selling me something.  In todays rules of capitalism a company cannot afford to look out for me if it doesn't affect the bottom line.  If a company forgoes profits just to look out for me it will not last long.   It's not a bad thing, it's enabled countless innovations, allowed us to buy products at rock bottom prices and raised th standard of living for thousands of people.  But it also means that we need to be aware of the areas where a companies interests don't match our own or our country's and be ready to step in in those instances.

Edited by drewb8 2010-04-29 10:55 PM

Give our track record of NOT voting them out over the last 50 years of being f**ked sideways, I'd say you have a better chance of "voting" out business by not buying their product or services.

In metaphorical terms I'd trust big business with my kids.  I wouldn't trust government to watch my pet rock.

I love this one...... Business is evil becasue they proivide you with unhealthy options - you see , that's why we use the word options, cause you can choose.  If people didn't want the choice provided, they wouldn't be here. 
OK - resume with the silliness that is thi??s poll.??????? 

I'm not seeing the Government argument. I think everyone has had a time when they've been unhappy with some decision made by both Government and by Businesses. You only get to vote realistically once per year. And even when you vote, your representative may not vote the way you want him to on different bills.

While it's true voting is very powerful, every single time you take cash out of your wallet, you're voting on business. You've got an amazing amount of power. People are so ready to believe they are powerless against these big-bad-profit-monsters. That's beyond untrue, consumers hold a TON of power whether they believe it or not. Everyone knows the phrase "the customer is always right". Well, it's true. If you've spent even a single in private industry, you know it's true. If you haven't, then you should work a retail counter for 7 days and see how it goes. Customers are ruthless.

I can always choose to business with certain people and avoid doing it with others. At least at the Federal Government level, you've got no opt-out. At the state level, the issue is most states are overstepping the bounds of liberty and choice. These are two things that are supposed to be ineligible for debate and not subject to a vote. Your liberty and choice is assumed. Check out your state's constitution. Most have tons of similarities to the Constitution.

I was just getting ready to respond in kind.  Life is full of choices.  Don't want to smoke.  Don't.  No one is forcing you.  Want to eat healthier food.  Reward those who make healthier food with your dollars.

Edited by TriRSquared 2010-04-30 8:03 AM