What should be my longest long run and when?

I would not do what you are describing in the final month of an IM build. 

As I said in the other thread, you should stick to the plan.  Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like you have one which makes things more difficult.  But this is rally not the time to 'ad lib' if you don't have experience in doing so.

I have 7.5 weeks left of training. I have talked to 2 friends (one who did IM 2 years ago) and one who has a coach and is doing WI this year too. They both recommended getting an 18 mile run in. That's why I'm asking. I really do have a plan it's just that some of the workouts on a bike or run day are borrowed from a different plan etc. I guess I'll keep researching this one! Thanks!

I'm doing the Intermediate 20 week plan on here and it has my longest run, 2:40 6 weeks out.

I am 7.5 weeks out and I have an 18 mile run on my schedule for this weekend. Gale Bernhardt plan.

I am 7.5 weeks out and have a 16 mile run Friday.

Kevin

IMO, no you should not run 18 miles for your longest run, regardless of what other athletes are doing.  Cap your long run at 2.5 hours (whatever distance that gives) and call it a day.

Shane

If your longest runs are currently 12 miles and you are 7.5 weeks out from your IM, I say no.  Building to 18 miles in the three weeks before your taper would risk injuring yourself for very little gain.  Maybe you could up your long run mileage to 15 if it would not cause you to need a recovery.

If it helps you feel better,  I was supposed to do 18 miles in my plan (DH tells me this plan - I do not believe it is published), including a 15 miler this week and the 18 miler in 2 weeks.  However, my PF is acting up and I will do neither of these runs (possibly abbreviated versions if my foot is doing better).  You are able to complete a marathon and assuming that you don't cook the bike, you should be able to keep running during your race.

I'm glad this question was asked.  I have been wondering the same thing.  I am doing a modified version of the BT Beginner Plan and it has my long run at 3 hours.  The only thing it has it broken down into a 2 hr 20 min morning run followed by a 40 minute run later in the day.  I'm not sure if I will get in that one or  not.  I did something to my leg late last week and have not run since.  I'm going to test it tonight with a 5k.  Hopefully it will hold up.

Your friends are not you and may be training differently.  If you are at 12 miles now, there is little to be gained by pushing out an 18 mile run (and, potentially, a lot to lose).  And while it's probably too late to do much about it now, if the workouts on a bike or run day are "borrowed" from a different plan, then you are not following any of those plans.  You are making up your own.  This is OK as long as you do so smartly and understand how one workout leads to the next.  However, your question suggests that you really don't understand this yet (not a knock on you--it's just something a self-coached athlete has to learn).  So, again, be very careful about adding or changing workouts at this stage.  Your goal is to maintain consistency of your plan for the next month.  Not to worry about workouts that others are doing.  Hope that helps.

Just out of curiosity, why pick a plan and then modify it? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a single, integrated plan?

For me, by modifying, it is more moving stuff around to fit my schedule and adapt to the injuries (AT and IT Band) I have incurred.  Otherwise, I try to stick with it as much as possible.

Oops, I meant 15 miles. I have a 2.5 hour run and was just estimating my distance. I think the OP and I are about the same speed. Sorry.

Edited by ahohl 2010-07-21 10:33 AM

I've wrestled with this in the past, and have asked in this forum before and received mixed answers.
If you are a slow runner like me, 2.5 hours will yield around 13 miles, maybe 13.5. Personally I am not comfortable with 13 miles being my long run in preparation for an Ironman. But I am no expert (obviously!).

So, slow runners... what have you done and has it worked? Did you cap your long runs at 2.5 hours even if it only got you 12 or 13 mile? Or did you go ahead and get some 16, 18, 20-milers in? Do you wish you would have done something different?

My plan calls for a 3-hour run at the longest but again, that will only get me 16 miles. Once.
Is going 18 miles really that much of a stretch? If not for the physical aspect, I think it would help me mentally more than anything...

Think about it.  Is leaving yourself "10 miles short" or "8 miles short" really going to make a big difference?  You are going to go 26.2 miles after swimming 2.4 and biking 112.  Your 26.2 is going to take you over 5 hours.  Accept that is going to be tough.  Accept that you will have done nothing like this in training.  Trust your training.  Believe that you can do it. 

I'm slow runner and most of my long runs are in the 11:30-12 m/m range. First IM I did 2 18 and a 20 mile run which was runs 3.5-4 hours long. What did they accomplish? Made me really tired. My long runs were like 60-75% of my run volume for the week as I was only running 3x a week. I thought I needed it and it was more for my mind to believe I could do the distance.

Next IM, I ran 4x a week and did a lot of 14 mile runs, a few 16 and a 18 which meant a 3 runs that were 3 hours or longer. But my long runs were a smaller percentage of my runs for the week as I was running more often and doing a moderate run most weeks of 7-8-10 miles. I gained durability and the runs I recovered from better. I did a 16 mile run 10 days before my IM and felt great.

Before my first IM, I thought like many of you that doing xx distance be it 16-18-20 miles would help me for my IM. In retrospect I don't think it did. For me running more often and consistently so that long run feels easy so I can run again soon is more important.

This year before I was injured I was running 5x a week most weeks and my 70.3 race this year my run was by far best long run in a race. My splits were even with a slight negative split. How I felt running was so different. I did also work on bike pacing and rode easier than I did in my last HIM. The plan this year is to cap runs at 2:30 and if I want set up a week with a longer run in it but given I had knee surgery probably not going to do that.

Consistency trumps long run distance in my view.




Edited by KathyG 2010-07-21 11:09 AM

I think it might depend on whether you have ever run a stand-alone marathon before.
I have done two, so I am not that concerned about getting the mileage way up there. I have the mental confidence from the other experience of doing the marathon, even though it's a different beast than an IM.

If you haven't done one, I could see the temptation to do a longer run.

I haven't done century rides before this IM training, so I am throwing in some extra long rides to boost my confidence. Unfortunately replicating that with running can lead to days off for recovery from the run, or worse, injury.

I've done one stand-alone marathon - last year.



Oh I've accepted that it will be tough
It's just hard for me to mentally wrap my brain around "only" getting 16 miles in as my long run. Especially when I see training partners with the same age, tri experiences, background and paces being coached (by paid coaches) to run much longer/farther than me. I know it's difficult to compare, but it does make me 2nd guess things.



Edited by lisac957 2010-07-21 11:14 AM

like you, I prefer to use distance as opposed to time with training.  2-hour training run for a 3-hour marathoner is much different than 2-hour training run for a 5-hour marathoner.  However, when i made my plan I did base it on number of hours training per week and adjusted my mileage to fit.  Anyway, I do think a long run of 18-miles is a little long.  I did a long run of 16-miles (2 1/2 hours) 4 weeks before the race.  This was more psycholocal than anything.  I honestly feel the runs that helped me the most were the ones off the bike.  Just getting the legs confortable moving...even if it was only 2-3 miles after a long ride really helped me deal with tired legs off the bike on race day.

Anyway, I can understand wanting to go longer than 2-hours but 18-miles I think will put you out there for over 3-hours running.  I really don't see that as necessary as you have run marathons before.  It takes time to recover from 3+ hours of running.

Thank you for the responses! This is exactly why I was asking. As Lisa said (we are in the same exact boat Lisa!) I'm a slower runner. I've done 2 15 mile runs in the past 2 months but typically it has been 12-13 miles because that's my "happy distance" that doesn't interrupt my training by leaving me sore.

As to why I'm mixing up plans...some plans are too hard and some are too easy and some are too medium. I'm not going to win any awards in Madison and as a personal trainer and someone who aspires to coach new triathletes one day I found it much more fun to pick my workouts by myself. If I fall on my arss it will be my fault but if I cross the finish line in one piece the pride will be amazing.

Nothing to add but I wanted to say I think the bit in red above is a fantastic little nugget. I might add that to my list of favorite quotes! 

Gale Bernheardt's 13 weeks to an ironman (for athletes with limited time) plan calls for a 3 hour run, 2 weeks before the race.  I believe that lots of people have used her plan successfully. 

My long run was 3:10 (18.3 miles) two weeks before my race.   I had no problem with it.  But running is my strongest sport. 

If you've already run a bunch of marathons, then there should be no problem with you gradually ramping up your mileage.  You've done it a bunch of times before, and know how to do it, right? 

The rule of thumb is that it takes one a day per mile to recover from a running race.  e.g. 26 days to recover from a marathon.  But training miles _should_ be done much easier.  And therefore it seems that there should be no problem at all recovering from a 18 mile training run in 14 days. 

P.S. I'm in taper now. Race coming up in 10 days.  

I like what Mr. Curtain says.  I am using Gales' 26 week to an IM plan and it too has two 3 hour runs, one in week 21 and one in week 23.  I am going to stick to this plan as I have so far and hope I have enough fitness to finish the IM.  I really think if I went out and increased my running at this point so I could tow the line with a couple 20 milers under my belt, I may do more harm than good.  At 3 hours, I should be around 18 miles.  And after an ice bath, some lounging around in tights, I should be OK to get up the next day and continue on executing the plan.

When I started training I had lofty goals of finishing in 12 or 14 hours.  Now I would like to finish in 16:50.  I want a little cushion at the end!

This user's post has been ignored.

Out of curiosity, what's is your race pace for a marathon?

As I understand it, one's long training runs should be done 1-2 minutes slower per mile, than your race pace.

Unless you're racing 6min/miles, it seems that you're running much to fast on your long training runs, and that would explain why you feel so beat up after only 2.5 hours.

2 cents on that. 

From Galloway:

"Run all of the long ones at least 2 minutes slower than you could run that distance that day. The walk breaks will help you to slow the pace, but you must run slower as well. You get the same endurance from the long one if you run slowly as you would if you run fast. However, you'll recover much faster from a slow long run."

http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/long_run.html