I hit a runner while on my bike today (Page 3)
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2011-07-21 9:23 AM in reply to: #3607695 |
Veteran 263 Chicago suburbs | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today Not going to offer opinions on right or wrong here but one thing I began doing was modifying what I announce a bit. Given various reactions I've gotten I now say "passing on your left". Seems like more people I pass react better to that and don't have to know the rules about the "on your left" announcement. YMMV. |
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2011-07-21 9:25 AM in reply to: #3607928 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today lamb_y2003 - 2011-07-21 9:15 AM Question for you guys, do you have speed limits on your paths? The one I run on most often has a posted cycling speed limit of 20km/hr which is about 12.5mph. Does this apply where you live? Now that I've converted, 18mph is really damn fast on a multi-use path. Mind you, mine is only about 4-5' wide. On the narrow portions and near the boat houses it's supposedly 7mph, but there is nothing posted. On the wide portions I would say average cycling speed is 15-18mph but you get a lot of people who think they're on the Tour. It's very flat and paved, and people tend to go fast. Although I may be the one taking the hit on this thread it makes me really angry to see bikes weaving around people at a high rate of speed in the congested areas. Where are you really going to go? That being said, I got my hard lesson for the day. |
2011-07-21 9:29 AM in reply to: #3607964 |
Veteran 1900 Southampton, Ontario | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today moldoverb - 2011-07-21 9:25 AM , I got my hard lesson for the day.
mistakes are made, no one died, move on. Edited by DaveL 2011-07-21 9:30 AM |
2011-07-21 9:30 AM in reply to: #3607753 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today duder5189 - 2011-07-21 8:23 AM I'm sure the kid just got startled, which is why I've pretty much stopped the whole "on your left" thing, and just try to buzz by them as quickly and safely as possible when I'm in this situation. I've found the "on your left" announcement to probably do more harm than good overall. I vote against this method. Just last weekend I was running on a multi-use trail and somebody did this to me. They buzzed me the second my left foot planted and it startled me to the point that I had a slight reaction that ended up tweaking my knee. It's never good to startle people when they're running IMHO. Also, when I hear people coming up on me yelling "on your left" I always raise my left hand acknowledging that I heard them and it's safe to pass. To the OP, regardless of whose at fault I'm glad your both OK. |
2011-07-21 9:30 AM in reply to: #3607934 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today Scout7 - 2011-07-21 9:17 AM Well, it IS Philly.... They were afraid there would be police involved, and they would be questioned. Or that a flash mob would show up, one or the other. Speaking of Philly cops, I was out running 3 years ago on July 3rd and knocked over from behind by a female cyclist in front of Boathouse Row. It was a low speed hit, she had just gotten her road bike and couldn't unclip. There were about 5 cops standing there setting up the barriers for the fireworks and concert. But you gotta love Philly's finest, every one of them ran to her and ignored me |
2011-07-21 9:37 AM in reply to: #3607884 |
Veteran 480 | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today moldoverb - 2011-07-21 9:07 AM abier - 2011-07-21 8:55 AM moldoverb - 2011-07-21 8:40 AM Scout7 - 2011-07-21 8:36 AM bsc77 - 2011-07-21 9:04 AM I think it's because most of the people running out there have never heard the term before. I know what "on your left" means due to the time I spent in track and cross country. I also know that when someone yells "track", it means move to the outside, someone wants the inside lane. I am also willing to bet the OP startled the heck out of the kid, and he reacted in an unfortunate direction.Glad you guys didn't get injured, that's the important thing. I don't think that runners react to "on your left" like cyclists do, a big reason is a substantial amount of runners crank the tunes while running (I'm guilty of that). Since I started cycling I'm a heck of a lot more conscience of my surroundings when running. People living in the city (Philly) and out on the path at 6:30am are pretty aware of the rules. It's the same people every day. Not saying I wasn't wrong, just saying that's a reality. And I still think I did the right thing trying to explain them to him. Sorry to pile on, but if you admit to being at fault, why "explain" the "rules" to the guy. You broke them, and it doesn't matter what time of day it was, or who the "regulars" are. Because someone else might just knock him over and keep going. I may have been wrong but I didn't want to see him get seriously hurt. I shared this here so I could learn something. I really am not the inconsiderate jerk some of you are trying to make me out to be! Ok, I didn't mean to suggest that. Here's how I wish your exchange went: "Oh man! I'm so sorry, I was trying to tell you I was passing on your left. I should have slowed down, totally NOT your fault." I run and cycle on the trails around here, and the only jerks I encounter are cyclists that think they're trying out HTC or something. I get "buzzed" while running quite often. I'm not saying this is you, you announced yourself, you just made an incorrect assumption that the person knew your intentions. Always slow to a speed where you could stop on a dime if need be. I don't think you're a jerk or you're trying to shift blame, it's just that when I'm on the trails, I assume ALL the responsibility for avoiding pedestrians. Squirrels, on the other hand, are a different story! |
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2011-07-21 9:45 AM in reply to: #3607993 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today Squirrels, on the other hand, are a different story! This is why you have to love the new media. Intent and feeling are just so easy to convey! IMHO squirrels are suicidal little psychopaths. I also really despise geese. |
2011-07-21 9:47 AM in reply to: #3607695 |
Veteran 480 | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today I aim for geese. |
2011-07-21 9:52 AM in reply to: #3607964 |
Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today moldoverb - 2011-07-21 7:25 AM lamb_y2003 - 2011-07-21 9:15 AM Question for you guys, do you have speed limits on your paths? The one I run on most often has a posted cycling speed limit of 20km/hr which is about 12.5mph. Does this apply where you live? Now that I've converted, 18mph is really damn fast on a multi-use path. Mind you, mine is only about 4-5' wide. On the narrow portions and near the boat houses it's supposedly 7mph, but there is nothing posted. On the wide portions I would say average cycling speed is 15-18mph but you get a lot of people who think they're on the Tour. It's very flat and paved, and people tend to go fast. Although I may be the one taking the hit on this thread it makes me really angry to see bikes weaving around people at a high rate of speed in the congested areas. Where are you really going to go? That being said, I got my hard lesson for the day. I think the positives that have come out of this outweigh the negatives. FWIW I think explaning the common courtesy and safe path usage by pedestrians was a good thing. He learned something today and so did you. I imagine a lot of other people did to two too,,, oh you know what I mean. |
2011-07-21 9:57 AM in reply to: #3607925 |
Champion 10018 , Minnesota | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today bradword - 2011-07-21 9:15 AM This thread is just crazy. A runner bolts out in front of someone and it's the cyclist fault? So if I'm walking down the street and jump in front of a car it's their fault? I use a multi-use trail all the time for my cycling up here. I slow down, give plenty of space and do as much as I can to avoid others, but if someone doesn't look and turns in front of you, it's not your fault. I guess I'll get shelled for having this opinion, oh well. I agree 100% with this, thanks for saving me the typing. |
2011-07-21 9:59 AM in reply to: #3607695 |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today |
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2011-07-21 9:59 AM in reply to: #3607695 |
Runner | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today For the record (in case any of them are on this site), I think the Philadelphia police are great, and do a good job. There, now that I'm done with the CYA portion. Geese are nasty critters, and I try to avoid them. I have been pursued in the past. Swans are also surprisingly nasty, especially if there is a nest nearby. Squirrels.... I saw one almost get stepped on once while out running. The grey squirrels I don't mind so much; it's the creepy black ones that worry me. They seem to enjoy chasing me when I'm out. And no, it's not a race thing, I swear. |
2011-07-21 10:01 AM in reply to: #3608039 |
Champion 10018 , Minnesota | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today I will add that a lesson I learned a long time ago, which applies here, is that you need to give a lot more lead time. I slow down, yell my warning, watch the reaction, then pass. I figure this is the price to pay for the awesome path. This is also why I don't concern myself with my average pace on a training ride. Slowing and speeding will only make me stronger, right? By the way, we have a LOT of paths and while some of them have a 10 mph limit posted (around lakes and other nice stuff like that) we also have paths that are meant for riding for real. I think of some of them as the bicycle highway and they are more than wide enough for everyone to do their thing if people are respectful. |
2011-07-21 10:02 AM in reply to: #3607928 |
Houston | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today lamb_y2003 - 2011-07-21 9:15 AM Question for you guys, do you have speed limits on your paths? The one I run on most often has a posted cycling speed limit of 20km/hr which is about 12.5mph. Does this apply where you live? Now that I've converted, 18mph is really damn fast on a multi-use path. Mind you, mine is only about 4-5' wide. On some of the popular trails here in Houston, the speed limit is 10mph. That doesn't stop aggressive and fast cyclists from yelling "MOVE! MOVE!" as they barrel down the trail at 20mph or lecturing slower cyclists. This obnoxious is attitude is one of the reasons I hesitated riding a bike for many years. I still would rather ride on my trainer. |
2011-07-21 10:04 AM in reply to: #3607695 |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today People are wrong on the Internet! I must fix this! In short order: 1. To the OP: you're at fault and you've ackowledged it. On behalf of the universe, I grant you forgiveness. And you did the right thing to stop and help the runner, so you get an extra brownie. 2. 17mph uphill on a MUP. Common sense (making its usual fleeting appearance) says that's fast, regardless of posted or not posted speed limits. 3. Slow down approaching pedestrians from behind. Duh. Commonsense (2nd time on one post!) 4. Yelling "on your left" is always a judgment call. Some people dart left, some people dart right, some people hold their line. Have your hands on the brakes ready to stop. Commonsense (3rd time, getting scary).
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2011-07-21 10:13 AM in reply to: #3608039 |
Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today BikerGrrrl - 2011-07-21 7:57 AM bradword - 2011-07-21 9:15 AM This thread is just crazy. A runner bolts out in front of someone and it's the cyclist fault? So if I'm walking down the street and jump in front of a car it's their fault? I use a multi-use trail all the time for my cycling up here. I slow down, give plenty of space and do as much as I can to avoid others, but if someone doesn't look and turns in front of you, it's not your fault. I guess I'll get shelled for having this opinion, oh well. I agree 100% with this, thanks for saving me the typing. So if a pedestrian legally enters a crosswalk and gets hit by a motor vehicle you think the driver is blameless?!? |
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2011-07-21 10:13 AM in reply to: #3607695 |
Champion 5312 Calgary | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today I blame it on the cars. Why do they get all the room. Send some asphalt our way. I always am head up hands on the breaks when I come to anything on the pathway. Thankfully I have a beast of a bike that slows the second I stop pedaling. The worst is 6 year olds on their bikes. Bajesus, those little bikes swerve quick. |
2011-07-21 10:18 AM in reply to: #3608076 |
Runner | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today crusevegas - 2011-07-21 11:13 AM BikerGrrrl - 2011-07-21 7:57 AM bradword - 2011-07-21 9:15 AM This thread is just crazy. A runner bolts out in front of someone and it's the cyclist fault? So if I'm walking down the street and jump in front of a car it's their fault? I use a multi-use trail all the time for my cycling up here. I slow down, give plenty of space and do as much as I can to avoid others, but if someone doesn't look and turns in front of you, it's not your fault. I guess I'll get shelled for having this opinion, oh well. I agree 100% with this, thanks for saving me the typing. So if a pedestrian legally enters a crosswalk and gets hit by a motor vehicle you think the driver is blameless?!? Actually I believe that the situation being discussed isn't a pedestrian legally entering a crosswalk, but rather jaywalking. |
2011-07-21 10:22 AM in reply to: #3607695 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today I drop down to a safe speed or completely across the path when I see a pedestrian. Luckily, its not a city path so I see maybe 5-10 during my 18 mile trip, most of which are in a 1 mile strip. When its empty I've gone up to 35 mph. When I see a walker, I slow down to 10 mph, if need be. If the path gets congested with walkers and runners, it no longer is a valid place to cycle, and there are quite a few cycling advocates that hammer this point to the city councils. I find the irony with our 'bike path' that it is funded as a essentially a commuter road for bicycles, but city planners want to build parks all along it which will essentially nullify it as bicycle commuter road. |
2011-07-21 10:23 AM in reply to: #3607695 |
Veteran 240 Denver | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today -this is America, whether you are on a road, bike path, or shopping aisle in Walmart, you stay to the right. -he was young, their bones are like rubber, he will bounce right back. -you did him a favor by teaching him at a young age not to be stupid. -the fact that you stopped to apologize rather than grabbing his wallet and taking off, makes me question if you are truly from Philly |
2011-07-21 10:24 AM in reply to: #3608077 |
Regular 282 Toronto, ON | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today BigDH - 2011-07-21 10:13 AM The worst is 6 year olds on their bikes. Bajesus, those little bikes swerve quick. You're not kidding. I have a 5 & 7 year old and I took them on a MUP to walk our dog and they were a brutal. The dog stayed in the right area but the kids? Disastrous. LOL. |
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2011-07-21 10:27 AM in reply to: #3608114 |
2011-07-21 10:27 AM in reply to: #3607695 |
Expert 1342 Apex, NC | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today As I come up behind runners, walkers, or other cyclists on a local rail-to-trail, I'm usually riding my 29er with disc brakes. It brakes silently, so I can't squeeze on brakes to announce my approach. But I usually will click a few gears down on the rear derailleur and see if they notice. If not, I'll announce a quick but audible "Passing on your left" while leaving plenty of room for their reaction. If on my old hardtail Fisher, it's rim brakes will squeal so I use those as a horn. As a runner, when I hear someone call out "On your left", I acknowledge with a hand-wave or other gesture (such as moving further to the right). I've grown accustomed to looking for the acknowledgement from other runners as well. I'd say if you're going to ride on the multiuse paths often, and at more than just recreational speeds, you need a bell on your bike, and use it instead of calling out "On your left". Or do them both.
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2011-07-21 10:32 AM in reply to: #3607695 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today Bikes in England must be sold with a bell. That rule should apply in the U.S. and this discussion wouldn't be taking place. That said, I would go with this being a `no-fault accident' ... sure the cyclist could've given more warning or taken more evasive action but the runner also could've been more aware of his surroundings and not darted out in front of him. Chalk this up to bad timing and leave it at that. |
2011-07-21 10:32 AM in reply to: #3608130 |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: I hit a runner while on my bike today fgump - 2011-07-21 8:27 AM As I come up behind runners, walkers, or other cyclists on a local rail-to-trail, I'm usually riding my 29er with disc brakes. It brakes silently, so I can't squeeze on brakes to announce my approach. But I usually will click a few gears down on the rear derailleur and see if they notice. If not, I'll announce a quick but audible "Passing on your left" while leaving plenty of room for their reaction. If on my old hardtail Fisher, it's rim brakes will squeal so I use those as a horn. Really? You have some pretty high expectations about people's hearing if you think people are listening for clicks and squeals. I certainly won't hear it. When running, I always say "thank you" to the cyclists who say "on your left". When cycling, I usually say "on your left" and thank people who notice. I don't always say "on your left", especially if in my esteemed judgment the group will scatter in front of me. |
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