Question for parents about promoting independence

Well, there's no right answer and I think it totally depends on your child and how you've treated and prepared them up until now.

I know when I was 12 years old I did everything by myself and never asked my parents for help with anything.  I had two jobs, got myself to school and bought most of my own food.  When I turned 17, I decided to join the navy, did all the paperwork on my own and just told my dad he had to come in and sign a release form because I was only 17.  I never looked back and never needed anything.

Now my children on the other hand at 12 years old would have starved, and sucked their thumb in the corner if I left them alone because we admittedly coddled and sheltered them a little (ok a lot) more than we probably should have.  When our oldest turned 16, we really noticed this because he would call and ask about the silliest of things and we pretty much told him to figure it out and figuratively cut the umbilical cord.  He's now 17 and heading into his Senior year of HS.  I'd say for the most part he's pretty independent now, but does still on occasion ask us questions we feel he should just figure out.  So, in most cases we just tell him to figure it out.

So, I'm not necessarily saying tell your kid to suck it up and figure it out because it really depends on where they're at.  Personally, I'd probably give a little encouragement and advice, but make them deal with it on their own.

My kids are only 4 & 6 right now so a long way from your scenarios but I'll give it a go. At their current ages we are working on helping them realize they can do simple things for themselves. My newest line that makes my son groan :Is there anything else that I can help you with that you can't do for yourself? He really hates that heh heh heh

Anyway, for the college issues

Roomates - I would not want to interfer but be a sounding board for discussing any problems or issues. That said, I was sued by my roomates when I was a senior in college. I was not on the lease and they were a bunch of nasty witches (stole stuff, left nasty notes, wrote their initials on everything in the frig including each individual egg, monopolized the phone then cussed me out if I dared to use the phone etc.). It was a stressful enough living situation that I was breaking out in hives and missing my cycle so it was making me physically ill. I went to my parents to discuss the issues, they advised me to move out and go live with my sister. Since they were paying my rent I did what I was told. Nasty roomates sued me for the remainder of the rent money. Took me to court. So in this situation I was advised by my parents but at the same time they encouraged me to stand on my own and not take a bunch of garbage from some spoiled witches. If it were up to me I probably would have been miserable but stayed for the remainder of the semester. This forced me to stand up for myself which was a huge lesson for me in the long run.

Classes - I think as a freshman my parents walked me through the process of signing up for classes but I was on my own after that.The university had counselors that helped me find the right classes each semester.

Finances - my parents paid for my tuition, room and board so they handled all of that. I had to have a job for spending money. My parents were not paying for a sorority or any extras but the number one goal was to make sure my sisters and I got a college education. When I took summer classes I had to pay for my own apartment.

I think it depends on the situation and the child a lot.

Wow this sounds familiar, as in just today with my oldest. He's 19 and becoming a college sophomore. My youngest is 16.

The hardest thing a parent can do is let their kid struggle. The best thing a parent can do is let them struggle and figure things out on their own. The urge to just 'fix it for ya' is overwhelming, as its so hard to see your kid go through tough times.

I am big on coaching and advice, but at some point they are going to do what they are going to do and they need to learn on their own. And it's all case-by-case. Financial aid I help with because sometimes it does take a parent to call the school and apply some pressure when things aren't getting done, plus it directly affects me. Things that he's never had to deal with before like writing a resume, banking, etc. we will do together. Things like dorm/friends/jobs/girlfriends are advice only.

Sometimes I do like to torture myself by being delusional enough to think a logical conversation will result in a logical response. Sometimes I yell too much. And sometimes my ex and I just vent to each other and hold our tongues with the kids so they can learn the tough lessons.

keep in mind i'm not a parent, but i was a bit of a momma's boy my first year or two of college so i'll answer from that perspective (not implying anything here).

..."roomate: let me deal with that on my own.  like someone already said, just listen when i complain, just to make sure it's nothing too serious.

college classes: being a fishy, i'm gonna need you're help on this. i should definately learn how to do all this stuff on my own, but maybe you can walk me through it this time and show me how you would do it.  maybe assign some of the stuff to me to make me partly responsible, then, next semester i'll do it all on my own.

overall, don't baby me, but don't leave me hanging either.  now, if i completely ignore you and don't follow through with my commitments, especially with grades or your money, i'll need some tuff love.  it will suck and i will learn the hard way but it will teach me some very valuable lessons"

again, i'm not parent, but just putting myself in their shoes and doing what i would want my parent to do.  so take this with a grain of salt.

If you are mature enough to pick out your own classes and think about your future, you are mature enough to handle things yourself. You might ask advice about how to handle things, but you should be doing it yourself. 

My younger daughter (now entering her senior year - Go Terps!) repeatedly is disappointed by her peers running to mommy and daddy - "I didn't get the dorm assignment I wanted! Fix it Daddy!". One of her apartment mates had her mother come in to clean up, to which my daughter thought "If you are old enough to live in apartment, you are too old to have your parents literally up your messes for you!"

We always encouraged our kids, starting in elementary school, to identify problems and look for solutions. Sometimes that solution means asking others for recommendations or help. By middle school (6th or 7th grade), we expected them to be able to come home, start their homework, and prepare a snack for themselves. This of course, assumes that the kids in question are not developmentally delayed or have problems like ADHD which make them less mature.

ETA - as my daughter just pointed out to me (based on a real event)- Unacceptable: Not getting the classes you wanted

Acceptable: Sitting in the local ER for 6 hours waiting to be admitted to ICU. In which case you should still at least say "I'll be here for a few days, so take your time" (hint - go anyway if you are the parent)

This is exactly how I would handle it...don't solve the problem but provide gentle guidance (where to look for help). They need to learn how to fix things themselves and this gets them started without overwhelming them. Now - if it was senior year and the same questions arise, I'd let them figure it out themselves.

Thanks for the feedback. Great perspectives. For the record, I don't have children of my own but I do work with young people.

I see parents handle these situations in a variety of ways and occasionally I am asked for my opinion. I am one for promoting as much independence as a young person can handle but some situations elicit strong feelings from parents (understandably). The support I provide a young person is very different from what their parents bring to the table.

It never is

What about if the parent is paying for the child's tuition? Do they get more "say"? I have no idea, just continuing the conversation.

Well technically I think they get a say because it is their money but I think they should let the kid make their own decision about stuff like that. I always kept my parents in the loop about what I was doing and my grades. My brother on the other hand tried to stretch his college career for as long as he could taking every PE he could and the minimum hours. After 5 years they told him they where done paying and he had to pay the last year on his own to finish. I think it is a checks and balance situation.

On the down side, if you raise them to be independent, then they will move away to the far corners of the earth.

Janicewhokeepsmehumble has gotten some interesting phone calls from the Geezerettes.  It is amazing what she can do.  I will give you my two favorite examples.

Story #1.  Geezerette #1 had just arrived in Paris, France for a semester abroad.  It was about 10 pm in France.  She was very tired but was escorted by her host to a phone booth to make a safe arrival call home to us.  (This was by the book in those days.)  After the first call, about 15 minutes later, we got a second phone call saying all the row houses look identical and she can't find her way back to the host's house.  She doesn't remember the family's name.  Without panicking, JWKMH remember we had the emergency number that had been given to us to call if we needed it and gave that to G1.  It was still complicated and she did not make it back to the host's house that night but she handled the rest.

Story #2.  G3 was visiting G2 in Washington DC.  G3 called Janice while driving G2's car around in DC. She was lost. G2 needed groceries but there was no parking available at the store.  The plan was for G3 to drive around the block.  In DC, that is easier said than done.  G3 was totally turned around.  Another complication, G2 left her cell phone in the car by accident.  JWKMH said just wait.  G2 is smart enough to figure this one out. G2 will call you.  This problem had a time constraint.  They had tickets to a play in about 2 hours. (In a funny coincidence, the play was, "Genius".)  As predicted, G2 handled it quite well but not without a couple of favors from total strangers.  Funny line from the phone call that G2 eventually made from a borrowed cell.  Katie, "Sarah, what do you see in front of you right now."  Sarah, "A big white house."  Yes, it was that house.  They made it to the play.

Now, if you are a young person reading this, I will tell you the parent's perspective on this type of calls.  Call if you need to.  We may just point out the obvious.  You will have to solve the problem yourself.  Also, call back afterwards to tell us how it turned out.  In neither of these cases were we given a followup call to say things did turn out ok until days later.  It would be nice to know you got yourself out of the predicament.  In our house, we operate under the no-news-is-good-news rule but we still want to be called as soon as you can.

My mom is pretty strict and she always encouraged independence. I had a job when I was 14, we didn't have a lot and we had to find our own fun/money/way.  She was a single working mom and I was the last of 3 kids, so therefore left alone plenty to do my own thing.  I moved out after high school and never went back. I paid for my own college and don't recall her being present at a single college meeting/event.   I still like and spend a lot of time with my mom, it's not as though I was so thrilled to get out of there. I just wanted to get started on life!

That said, my mom always advised me when needed.  I am sure she helped me fill out the FAFSA, etc.   I wasn't really the type to call with the questions above, mostly because this was before everyone had a cell phone and it would have been a long-distance call.   But if we talked I would complain about my problems, etc, like any teenager.   I am sure she would have said "you should talk to your RA" or "you need to go to the registrar for help" or "why don't you make an appointment with a financial aid counselor.   I went to a BIG University and loved being tossed into the exciting world it offered, I never was coddled and I thrived because of it.

If I had kids I would want this to be my kid's future too.  I would probably treat them, in situations where a lesson could be learned, just like I do the employees who work with me.  How else do you learn problem solving skills?  I never felt mature enough at 18 to necessarily find the right path on my own.   I was definitely in my 20s before I could have tackled most things with my own ideas. 

I think Tech Geezer's stories are cute, but if my child called me with those problems I would at least be thinking "Oh brother, I can't believe she didn't pay attention" and THAT would be the help I would give - a lesson about planning.   I am not heartless and I would make sure my child was safe, certainly. 

Two thoughts - the first is w/r/t to just saying to your kid "figure it out" - with no other guidance? To me, that is basically saying "I have no idea what you should do, so don't ask me". My kids never asked me to solve their problems for them, but they asked for advice; or sometimes, to be a sounding board ("here is the situation, here is what I think I should do. What do you think?"). 

Two, if you as a parent, are attaching strings to paying for the schooling, keep in mind that your child might then decide the "price of admission" is too high, and quit school, or stop communications with you as soon as they graduate, with nary a look back. Or they might never figure out how to be an independent person, and require your approval forever. Which gets really old when they are in their 30's and 40's. OTOH, if you as a child are going to demand your parent pay tuition and not keep them in the loop, remember that there are a lot of other things a parent can do with thousands of dollars, especially when there is not a child to be accounted for (e.g. that trip to Hawaii is a lot cheaper for 2 instead of 3...)

Short answer is YES. Same as living in my house versus on their own.

But...he was able to get enough scholarship money to bring tuition down to below a lever where we would need a Parent Plus loan. Consequently he gets a little more leeway for fulfilling his obligations, namely he will not be saddled with student loans. If he gets less than a B in any class he pays for that class. Mom and dad don't pay for no C's!

But what do you mean by 'having say?' I'd never tell my kids what they should study, but we always are discussing classes, career options, and I do expect to see his grades and if he asks I will proofread his work.

It's all shades of gray when you raise kids, especially as they get older and more independent. You spend so many years weaving that rope that bind you together, then you are magically supposed to know how, when, and what to cut?

Was more alluding to classes/majors.

I had a co-worker whose daughter changed from an engineering major to an art major. It was interesting office conversation, I'll just leave it at that

I'm one of the lucky ones. My parents gave me 4 years of paid tuition, room and board to the school of my choice, with a few stipulations:

1. 4 years, period. No more than that. If it took me longer, I was on my own.

2. We sat down and discussed costs and options. I ended up at a fairly expensive school, but worked hard for small grants and scholarships that ended up making a difference.

3. If I failed a class, I had to pay my parents back for that class. After my first (and only) D, they made a rule that I had to pay for those, too.

4. Books, fees, and other living expenses were my own responsibility. I worked during school and during the summer.

5. After college, if i wanted to move home, I'd have to pay $50/week.

6. If I wanted to take a car to school, it cost me $75/month to "rent" it from my parents. I only took a car senior year.

I also came from a family that stressed personal responsibilty. My sibiligs majors were Biochemistry, economics, engineering (me), math, and video game design. My dad is a CPA and my mom works for a big pharmaceutical company. We all were/are aware of job markets, pay, and what things are like in the real world. We were never told what to major in, but being aware of our talents and what life would be like after college, we all chose fairly well. Two of my sisters have moved on to master's degrees, fully funded and decided upon on their own.

We were basically responsible to handle our own issues – classes, housing, jobs, roommates – but mom & dad were (and still are) supportive. I know if I called with an issue, they’d help. They still offer to help more than I need – financially and emotionally.

Haha.  You have to give the kids a bit of slack.  In both instances, there were extenuating circumstances.  In the first, G1 was 19 years old, alone in a foreign country, and relying on her French completely for the first time in her life. Plus, she was exhausted from the travel.  In the second, the plan was evolved very quickly in the press of DC traffic.  It was a good plan but they just had a couple of little slipups.  I was delighted that G3 made the effort to visit her sister.  One of JWKMH's great achievements as a parent is that the daughters like each other and want to be together when they can.

About strictness with kids, I thought I was pretty lax on discipline but back in early hight school my daughter told JWKMH about a conversation with friend, whom we'll call J,  who was born in Taiwan but moved to the US as a small child. J had grown up very American while her parents, particularly her father, was definitely Chinese.  Anyway, G2 and J were comparing notes about how terrible their parents were.  Every story J told G2 was topping it.  Eventually, J said, "Katie, it's like your dad is .. is Asian!"  I love this story.  I refer to myself nowadays as TigerDad.

Well I know my son (and his mom) were reluctant to tell me he wanted to be a chef. At the time I was pretty high up in research management at a Pharma, and I guess they felt I would find it a 'lesser profession' and be against it.

I thought it was great that he found something he liked so early. The kid got into a magnet high school for culinary arts, now he's in college. It is a rough life but it's his passion, and he's a great kid. I know my parents were upset when I opted for a Ph.D. rather than an MD (I got into both programs), but I really love what I'm doing too and can't imagine doing anything else.

That being said, I cannot fathom parents who let their kids get into major debt to obtain a degree in a profession where it's nearly impossible to pay that off. Nearly always it's about status - going to an elite school just for the name.