login
Disagreement with swim coach on kicking
-
No new posts
|
 2008-01-16 3:14 PM |
Member  1699    |  Subject: Disagreement with swim coach on kickingMy swim coach wants me to kick fast and hard for 200 yards with a kickboard in the middle of a workout. I think it is a bad idea, because I then try to kick fast and hard during my swim. I think I should practice kicking at swim speed for at least part of my workout. She thinks I should shut my trap and kick harder, and I will naturally go slower when I swim. This is complicated by the fact I am dating my swim coach, and while she isn't normally a coach, she is a much better swimmer than I am. |
| 2008-01-16 3:16 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
Not a Coach 11473  Media, PA | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking She's your coach. She's your current SO. She's a swimmer. Shut your trap and kick harder. |
| 2008-01-16 3:18 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking Uhhh ... maybe you should pick your dates more carefully A good coach is willing to give you a reason for any direction, and explain it so that it makes sense to you. |
| 2008-01-16 3:19 PM in reply to: #1160196 |
Master 2355 Houston, TX | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking JohnnyKay - 2008-01-16 3:16 PM She's your coach. She's your current SO. She's a swimmer. Shut your trap and kick harder. lol! (I agree with Johnny!) |
| 2008-01-16 3:21 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking eberulf - 2008-01-16 4:14 PM and while she isn't normally a coach, she is a much better swimmer than I am. I'm not normally a chef, but I know how to cook well ....... does that mean I should be teaching someone how to make a souffle??? Talk with her, read more up on it and work it out. A swim coach that is training athletes for triathlons is not going to sit there and prescribe long kick sets (in my limited experience with the subject). That is a swimmer's thing, not a triathlete's thing. I read pro triathletes race reports and advice on that "other" site and they all seem to emphasize the same thing ...... they barely kick. |
| 2008-01-16 3:26 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
Master 1420 Reston, VA | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking 200 yards of hard kick in the middle of practice does not sound out of the oridinary. I would follow her advice and do it. |
| 2008-01-16 3:26 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
Pro 4189 Pittsburgh, my heart is in Glasgow | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking Well, it isn't what *I'd* normally do for my swimmers in a set, but it isn't completely bonkers. It's just like sprinting for x amount of meters in a run. I'm not entirely supportive of the "don't kick" philosophy in triathlon swimming, mainly because I think it reinforces poor body position and body roll. There's a difference between swimming HARD and swimming EFFICIENTLY. I'd ask her why she wants you to do it, what her philosophy behind it is. |
| 2008-01-16 3:28 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
| over a barrier | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking Sounds like she wants your legs to burn like a motha.....did you forget a birthday or anniv or something? |
| 2008-01-16 3:39 PM in reply to: #1160247 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking I didn't say "don't kick" I said "barely kick" ........ that keeps your position right without exhausting the legs. "Kicking in triathlon swimming" ranks right up there with the weight training and power cranks when it comes to heated discussions on forums. |
| 2008-01-16 3:44 PM in reply to: #1160274 |
Champion 6786 Two seat rocket plane | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking Daremo - 2008-01-16 3:39 PM I didn't say "don't kick" I said "barely kick" ........ that keeps your position right without exhausting the legs. "Kicking in triathlon swimming" ranks right up there with the weight training and power cranks when it comes to heated discussions on forums. That's right, everybody knows you'll kick better if you lift weights and ride PC's with 180 arms.......that way your flip turns can be better too I have nothing of substance to add except that it is usually not in ones best interest to anger one's SO.
|
| 2008-01-16 3:48 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
| Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking I'm confused: (1) why you think kicking hard for 200 yards results in you kicking hard when you swim? Can't you just revert to your normal swiming kick for the other 2500 yards of your workout?? (2) She's not a coach, but she's your coach? This isn't high school swim team, if I don't want to kick during our masters workout, I don't kick. |
| 2008-01-16 4:03 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
Master 2020 | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking I wish I had a dollar for every swim workout that didn't make sense... I would not be sitting here pretending to work! |
| 2008-01-16 4:08 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
Veteran 437 | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking A few things . . . There are different levels of coaches in the world. Like I have a 'coach' with my Master's swim team. However, the first rule there is 'do what the coach says unless you do not want to' And there are coaches that you are paying (or whatever payment agreement you have in place so to speak) that you are seeing to reach your goals. In the second case, you are likely to dislike them at times as they push you. However, you should be on the same page as far as philosophy. There are tri folks who think kick drills are not a good use of time. Others think they are. I am not saying one way or the other, just that you should align your goals and beliefs with each other. |
| 2008-01-16 4:35 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking I'm all for kick sets, but not with a kickboard. There is far more benefit in kicking on your back, side, or even face down & rolling for a breath in terms of maintaining good balance in the water. Kick sets are an opportunity to focus on balance as well as strengthen your swimming leg muscles. Using a kcikboard brings your upper body out of the water and hyperextends your neck and your low back...not good for anything! |
| 2008-01-16 4:58 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking There is a reason why 99% of triatheles SUCK at swimming and no it is not because they don't kick enough, but it is because they think the should train different than a swimmer. That's why they avoid flip turns, learning all 4 strokes, bilateral breathing, kicking drills, or swimming only 3x a week. Kicking is very important for proper balance, body rotation and stroke rhythm all key aspects for better/faster swimming. Certainly you don’t want to kick for propulsion but 200 yd sets won’t kill you or screw up your swimming. If you don’t trust your coach (gf) then find someone you trust or better yet just SUAT dude… |
| 2008-01-16 5:17 PM in reply to: #1160470 |
Veteran 379 NYC | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking amiine - 2008-01-16 5:58 PM Kicking is very important for proper balance, body rotation and stroke rhythm all key aspects for better/faster swimming. X2 I was a student of the master of distance swimming Terry Laughlin, he spoke at a swim clinic put on by my coach last summer. One of the things he drove home to us is that your kick is not used for propulsion in distance swimming, but to maitain proper balance and to initate your core rotation. Try not kicking at all and you'll probably see that you don't go anywhere. That is mostly due to the fact you are not initating your stoke from your core and therefore not driving forward correctly. I have a very strong kick, but slowing my kick so I'm barely kicking and just using it to initiate the rotation has been one of the biggest improvements in my swimming technique and therefore improving my times. And it saves your legs, a win/win. I know a lot of you will disagree, but sorry, it's a fact that working on kicking is detrimental to most triathletes. You'd be much better served doing drills that improve initiating from your core or improving your stroke to go farther with less strokes. Bossman |
| 2008-01-16 5:22 PM in reply to: #1160412 |
| Expert 695 | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking AdventureBear - 2008-01-16 5:35 PM Using a kcikboard brings your upper body out of the water and hyperextends your neck and your low back...not good for anything! Man you have that right.. I remeber when i used to love kicking.. now it hurts like HELL |
| 2008-01-16 5:32 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
| Regular 71 | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking This raises an interesting question.. I come from a swimming background. I am a long distance freestyler who uses a 2 beat crossover kick. If you don't know what that is don't worry. It essentially a kick that stablizes you body naturally as you stroke. It is not something that people teach, but many distance freestyler use. I am a terrible kicker on a kick board but I try to include it in my work out. The reason is while it does not repeat the motion I use for the majority of the swim it does come into play when I come off the blocks or push off the wall after a turn. I also use it when I am sprinting with my head down with minimal breathing. We can't all be Janet Evens whose kicking made her look like a motor boat, but it will help the average swimmer. Now how about triathletes? I think kicking should be part of your swimming program. One benefit of kicking is to ensure your feet don't sink and to keep your body in the proper position. If you wear a wetsuit, it will do that for you. However, kicking imrpoves your flexability of your legs and by using a kicking set as part of your rest between swim sets, you make the most of your training time in the pool. I do not do hard kicking sets. If you are hyperextending your neck, hold onto just the tail of the kick board. You can even keep your face in the water and practice breathing if you wish. Finally, if your girl friend/coach recommends kicking and you don't there may well be additional reprecussions. I leave it to you to do the cost/benefit analysis. Edited by badnews 2008-01-16 5:38 PM |
| 2008-01-16 5:34 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking Hold up... I have the answer for you... don't date your coach... or rather... don't let someone you date coach you. Seriously. It's not good. Sure, it's free... but people taking advice and coaching from someone they are dating... probably doesn't work out too often. It's not as easy to take direction and "do this" from someone you are dating. Shoot, if you want to see my boyfriend get completely annoyed and frustrated... just let me give him advice on how to swim while picking apart his stroke. Oh yea, he loves that! |
| 2008-01-16 5:36 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking I use the Bernhardt book "Workouts in a Binder for Triathletes" and she incorporates kicking drills and I do them. Seems like a fine drill to me. |
| 2008-01-16 5:45 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
| Modesto, California | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking I like to do kick sets whenever during a workout. I just want to get faster. I feel kicking helps with your core strength, adding to a powerful rotation, I am starting to believe that this is where the speed lies. I was lucky enough to watch the guy swimming in the lane next to me doing 50yard sprints in 21 seconds not kicking one bit, I was blown away. His legs moved slightly only because of his hip rotation. Edited by nevergivin 2008-01-16 5:51 PM |
| 2008-01-16 7:34 PM in reply to: #1160190 |
Extreme Veteran 589 Fridley, MN, USA | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking I would say go for it... 200 yards is nothing relative to the rest of the workout, and all it will do to you in the end is give you more kicking stamina. It can't really hurt you (unless you strain your neck/back using a kickboard-you should try kicking on your back or rotating from edge to edge as AdventureBear said), and it won't be taking too much precious time away from your workout (unless you really are pressed for time and can't afford the extra 4-5 minutes for the 200). Because of this, why not take the oppurtunity to work on your kick some more? Even if you choose to use the 2-beat kick in a tri, it can still be beneficial (tire your legs out even slower). |
 2008-01-16 7:59 PM in reply to: #1160525 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2008-01-16 8:08 PM in reply to: #1160203 |
| Regular 59 100k IMC Bike Course | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking TriAya - 2008-01-16 1:18 PM Uhhh ... maybe you should pick your dates more carefully A good coach is willing to give you a reason for any direction, and explain it so that it makes sense to you. X2 - Great point. |
| 2008-01-16 8:46 PM in reply to: #1160354 |
| Bob 2194 Binghamton, NY | Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking indygreg - 2008-01-16 5:08 PM However, the first rule there is 'do what the coach says unless you do not want to' The second rule of Masters Swimming is "It's always on the next top!!!" Kicking is a good thing and can only make you a more proficient and efficient swimmer. It's only 200 yds of pain, just do it! Each time you do it it will get easier and you will get faster. If you work kick sets hard in practice you will have a more powerful kick when you "kick less" in a triathlon. I HATE the pain that's involved in doing 400's and 800's on the track, but it will make me a better runner. |
|
|
|
|
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK