Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? (Page 3)

RM, I didn't see much animosity on that thread, many don't believe in coaching and they take any opportunity to make that very clear in as many posts as they can but you know what, that's fine.

In the coaching biz I participate we have fees ranging from $150.00 to $250.00 which vary from a simple but personalized 12 week plan and the athlete doesn’t get any feedback until the next cycle onto full on weekly personalized coaching in which the athlete and coach interact on a daily basis via different venues and get all the bells and whistles. Guess which one is our most of popular plan; yup the most expensive one; we are at capacity and to the point we’ve had to unfortunately turn some away.

As Mike (marma) posted on the original thread, people will consider coaching services based on how valuable they consider the service. For some paying for our fees is an investment in their health and time constraints while for others it is a waste of money or an unaffordable service.

I am not necessarily concerned with the perception some might have about coaching; unfortunately as it stands today anyone can claim to be a coach (or get USAT certified) and just used the TTB or some other book and then regurgitate bad training advice or worst, to use online plans and recycle those over and over with athletes. But as with any profession there is always the risk to encounter good and not so good professionals, in the end the burden is on the customer to do the homework and find out if the person you will hire is worth of their money. OTOH those coaches providing sub par service just enhances the value of mine, yours and that of coaches concerned with continuing learning/education to further improve their understanding and provide even better services.  Unlike avg coaches, you and I invest time and money to further advance our understanding in endurance sports and coaching. I’ve invested an important amount of $$ in seminars, certifications, books, journals, and academic online classes (The last one a sports physiology one) but for me is an investment not and expense, plus I enjoy it very much.

What is its satisfying is that MANY athletes (here on BT and other places) have coaches and place a big value on our services; for me as long as my guys (from beginners to the fast dudes/dudettes) are happy and achieving their specific goals by doing the work I am satisfied and it is all that matters.

Finally, I know more than a few around take offense of my posts, but if some of the advice provided for beginners is flat out wrong I have no problem pointing that out. If that causes animosity so be it. Many knowledgeable folks with years of experience, academic background, PhDs, etc (IOW way way smarter than me) have invested a great part of their lives to study endurance sports and provided the leading information on this subject and that’s what I like to follow and based my coaching approach on. Apparently some around prefer to trust on what their IM finisher friend or tri magazine has to say on the subject even when the info can be flawed at best. But they have a point because we all respond different to training and there are many ways to approach this and thats cool; the problem is when they make the leap and believe that their n=1 anecdotal evidence applies to the rest and sate it like that. In those cases is when our opposites points of view will collide. But it should be ok to have your ideas challenge in particular when posting in a public forum but it is obviuos some can’t handle it…

Wow, this has taken off more than I thought it would. Great responses all. From what I gather we have several different views:

• Those who have coaches and are happy.
• Those who would only have a coach under special circumstances (i.e. doing an IM, or trying to podium or qualify)
• Those who would have a coach if they could afford it.
• Those who prefer to do it themselves (nothing wrong with that)
• Those who think coaches or coaching is a waste of money.

There was one post and I am paraphrasing here but the gist of it was "anyone can call themselves a coach", which is true. Just like anyone can call themselves a Dentist or Financial Planner, or any other profession. It is up to you as the consumer to verify your potential coaches creditentials prior to engaging in a coach/athlete relationship.

To those of you who have had a negative experience with coaches on here, I apologize if I was one that offended you. Again I think that is more of a written vs spoken word thing. There are many different ways to "skin a cat" as far as training goes and who of us is to say that one technique is necessarily better than the other.

Thanks again to all of you.

I think you're also reading too much into some people's posts.

My issue has less to do with what they may or may not know because in the end, their message gets polluted by snarky responses and out and out insults in more than a few cases. (And they all know who they are)

I reject the argument that this is a "Public Forum" and this behavior is therefore somehow acceptable.  I pay a fee to be here, which, in my opinion,  makes that argument less than applicable. It is that sort of arrogance that has driven me away.

If they cannot communicate with me in a civil manner, then I have no use for them. I certainly don't need to pay someone to abuse me. Motivation to train is certainly not something that I have a problem with.

I didn't read any animosity, but how does that saying go, if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail?  So perhaps as a coach you took the opinions of people that would not hire a coach as a personal affront. 

In ay event, I am going into my 4th year of tris, and will be doing my first IM April IMAZ.  I thought about hiring a coach for the IM, but decided not to.  Primarily, I have a large training group available to me with people of all abilities.  From back of the packers to L.A. Oly AG winners, Kona qualifiers (multiples), several IMs.  I get a lot of valuable information and feedback from these people.  They see me train every day.  And frankly, they saw me when a long ride for me was 20 miles, and 10:30 / mile was fast.   They've seen my entire progression, and have day to day info abuot my performance.  I find this invaluable.  I also think people like having coaches because it encourages them to get their workouts in on a set schedule.  

I also get a ton of good info (although often conficting) here.  But as with anything, I pick the advice from people I respect and give it a shot.  I've used the training plans here for HIM.  I've used the gold membership coaching to ask questions in that forum. 

Primarily, though, is I think it would take the fun out of it, for me.  I like to just go out and go on a group ride. I don't frankly want to have to think about "OK, i'm warming up for 15 minutes, then I am doing 5 x :45 at FTP, then 6 x 1:00 high cadence blah blah blah."  Would it make me faster?  Probably.  I am not fast by any means, but I have had some success at shorter distances in the Clyde category.  But I don't think all of the coaching in the world could even get me near a podium in my 40-44 AG.

Would it be more fun?  nope.

And if I am not having fun, what's the point?

Your last paragraph sums it up. They're free to make snarky comments; you're free not to hire them. Insults are another thing, though. If that happens (and I think it's rare), report it to the mods and they'll deal with it.

No, that's an opinion.

Not everything posted is a personal attack.  Lighten up.

I didn't bother to read everything here, and I am not anti coach.  But...  I think that anyone can if they want to spend the time learn as much from books and experience and free resources as the coaches can teach them.  Truth be told the coaches were taught or learned this stuff too.  And it's not rocket science.  So yes there is no reason that someone has to hire a coach. 

Will it help?  Yes definitely, assuming you get a good coach that knows how to train people effectively.  Not everything will work for everyone.  So a coach must be able to adapt the way they train their athletes to each athlete individually.

Is it worth the Cost?  Maybe.  If you need it, want it and can afford it.  I don't therefore it's not worth it to me.  For most people this is a hobby.  I pay enough to race and am happy with my results.  I don't think adding a coach would enhance my experience enough to warrant x$/month. (I'd rather spend it on something else.

So basically there is no animosity towards coaches or coaching, but there is a question whether or not the ave. joe triathlete needs one.

I guess my previous post didn't really touch on the thread.

I agree with the cost/benefit folks.  If you're serious enough about what you're doing and have the resources, do whatever you want including getting a coach.  I do think if you're that serious about racing that you should take some time and educate yourself on the basics though.  The whole "teach a man to fish" thing...

I'm not really sure what's confusing about the basics though.  There are plenty of training plans here that are pretty straightforward.  There are nutrition articles (though for sprint folks it's not a huge topic of discussion).  Pick a resource and go with it.  Experiment.  Figure out what works for you.  That isn't a mutually exclusive concept with getting coaching as well.

It's a hobby for most of us.  Do whatever makes you happy.

Hey thanks

Unfortunately, the insult part is not as rare as I would have hoped. After a few threads got pulled/frozen by the moderators, I gave up and decided to minimize my time here on the Tri Forum. (Usually just posts encouraging my friends and posting in the daily)

I no longer get involved in any of the real discussions. I am only Delurking here because the OP asked specifically for opinions on this subject and my hope was that by sharing my experience, it might soften some of the more snarky behavior. (I know I am not the only one to be on the receiving end)

I wonder how people define coaching,,  Since I'm here on BT with a huge choice oftraining plans and access to the coaches if I have any questions.. so in a way yes I have a coach.. 

 I've taken a couple of swimming lessons froma local coach that since that's not something that I didnt' think I would get the improvement I was looking for through a book, video or online coach.  I'm going to be attending a run clinic for the same reason's.. Check on my form, feedback etc..

In both cases I'll have that knowledge forever, it's not like once I'm done with the lessons I'm going to stop swimming/running with better form so I'm not sure how that compares with the thought process of "if you spend X amount on ____ and divide it times a year or 5 years "  Knowledge is pretty much forever.

To me it's the same thing as when I bought a piano a few years back and was teaching myself to play I reached a point where I needed some lessons to igure out some stuff.  then went back to learning on my own pace

I don't notice alot of animosity towards Coaching, but more animosity towards certain people that make  broad general statements or assumptions of abitlity for everyone here.

I already have a wife that YELLS!!!  at me.  "Go Faster, Hurry Up!!!"

I think you've responded very kindly and completely, nancylee.

It is nice to see someone as certain of her conviction and decision-making, and I agree with your rationale to hire a coach.  For you it made perfect sense.  Even others here would think it's unnecessary or wasteful, that's their assessment -- not yours.  Enjoy your coach and enjoy your time with triathlon.  I hope you'll have many more finishes and successes in '08!